Discussion of movies and ReelThoughts topics
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hgs0814
Assistant Second Unit Director
Joined: Mon Mar 02, 2009 4:25 pm Posts: 79
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 Re: STAR TREK
I think you can enjoy First Contact without watching a single minute of TNG the series or Generations...it is a good action movie on its own merits. Knowing the characters makes some of the parts more meaningful but not enough to be dehabilitating to enjoying the movie if you did not have the backstory knowledge.
The most important episodes to watch beforehand would be the 5 or so in TNG that deal with the borg threat I'd say.
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| Sun May 03, 2009 5:55 pm |
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nickinks
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 Re: STAR TREK
"First Contact" is the best TNG movie, in my humble opinion. And no, you don't have to see any other Trek to "get" it. It's very open in that way, unlike the other TNG movies.
My list of Trek movies is a little different, but here goes:
(First, my background: I'm 30, single male, Kansas, lifelong Trekkie (not Trekker), was into the original-series movies as a kid; I got into the various TV shows later as an adult, mostly TOS and DS9. Never seen an episode of TNG, Voyager or Enterprise.)
ORIGINAL SERIES MOVIES, BEST TO WORST:
1 -- The Motion Picture -- it's the most epic, biggest "feel", produced by Roddenberry, and I think it's a good story. 2 -- The Undiscovered Country -- my dad took me to see it when I was little; it's the only movie he took me to see, so there's some sentimental feeling there. i remember drinking too much pepsi. i had to get up in the middle of the movie to use the facilities. "Country" has a superb sci-fi story and a rousing send-off for the original crew. 3 -- The Voyage Home -- this is the best that De Kelley and Leonard Nimoy ever were in their interaction with each other. That relationship is the heart of Star Trek. 4 -- The Search for Spock -- an enjoyable action movie; no more, no less. 5 -- The Final Frontier -- I like it. It feels closer to the Original Series (to me) than any other movie. Including the bad FX. 6 -- The Wrath of Khan -- It's ok, but I've never understood what's so special about it? Just being honest. The characters have silly costumes, and it was ultra low-budget.
THE NEXT GENERATION MOVIES, BEST TO WORST:
1 -- First Contact -- not so bad. good battle scene with the Borg cube. 2 -- Insurrection -- it works for me. 3 -- Generations -- Kirk's death was bad. 4 -- Nemesis -- was completely phoned in. The very worst Trek movie.
ALL THE MOVIES, BEST TO WORST:
1 -- The Motion Picture 2 -- The Undiscovered Country 3 -- The Voyage Home 4 -- First Contact 5 -- The Search for Spock 6 -- Insurrection 7 -- The Final Frontier 8 -- The Wrath of Khan 9 -- Generations 10 -- Nemesis
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| Sun May 03, 2009 11:04 pm |
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Unke
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 Re: STAR TREK
Thanks for the review and the "Confessions of a lapsed Trekkie". It was a great idea to publish the "Confessions" in order to allow us to see where you're coming from. Fantastic!
Since we're all posting our Star Trek movie rankings, here are mine:
1. VI - The Undiscovered Country A great farewell to the old crew and the best mix of action, humour, character interaction and underlying themes of all films. 2. II - The Wrath of Khan The best Trek movie with an action approach. It really is Moby Dick mixed with a Submarine movie set in space. What elevates it is the villain - Khan is the only credible threat to Kirk in all of the films. 3. IV - The Voyage Home The funniest Star Trek movie and good character interaction. 4. I - The Motion Picture It is a bit slow and there are at least one or two similar episodes in the TV series, but it tries to incorporate some ideas, just like the TV series did.
Apart from these four films, I actually don't like any of the Star Trek movies.
5. VIII - First Contact It has good action scenes, but I find the Cochran character extremely grating. What I don't like at all about the TNG movies is the fact that they turn Picard into an action hero. This is as far from the TV series as it could get. And Data's emotion chip is a stupid invention. 6. III - The Search for Spock I couldn't buy the premise. 7. VII - Generations The whole Picard meets Kirk angle doesn't work. And Kirk couldn't have had a worse sending off. The villain is not memorable at all. 8. X - Nemesis It is very bad, but I liked some of the visuals. And I wasn't that bored. But really: Does Star Trek need car chases? Probably the most stupid Trek movie. 9. IX - Insurrection In my opinion, this is a bloated and not very good TNG episode at feature length - and the most boring of all the films. 10. V - The Final Frontier It was on TV last weekend - I switched it off. I didn't remember how bad - and how badly made - it is.
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| Mon May 04, 2009 4:42 am |
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Arnie
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 Re: STAR TREK
Since everyone's putting up their list, here's mine (in descending order of liking): 1. The Wrath of Khan (a great movie, not just great Trek) 2. First Contact (excellent Trek) 3. The Voyage Home (excellent, light-hearted romp) 4. Insurrection (feels like a double episode, but a GOOD double episode) 5. The Search for Spock (good largely because it is the middle episode of what is essentially one long story) 6. The Undiscovered Country (decent send-off for the crew) 7. Generations (barely memorable fare, ruined by Kirk's unmemorable death) 8. Nemesis (A car chase? A head-on collision? Enough said!) 9. The Motion (less) picture (Unmitigated tedium, chiefly because it is a loooooong reworking of an average TOS episode) 10. The Final Frontier (cheesy FX, un-classy humour) Have yet to see Star Trek 2009, but from what I read, methinks it will end up either just above or just below TVH in my esteem...
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| Mon May 04, 2009 6:33 am |
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Eugene Novikov
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 Re: STAR TREK
James, I enjoyed the review. I think I liked the movie marginally more than you did, and let me just disagree with you on the relative merits of Chris Pine's and Zachary Quinto's performances. I could take or leave Pine, but thought Quinto's interpretation of Spock was genius, retroactively enriching Nimoy's performance over the years (which is kind of remarkable). I thought he heightened Spock's enduring Vulcan vs. Human, logic vs. emotion internal conflict beautifully.
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| Tue May 05, 2009 12:22 am |
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BANKA
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 Re: STAR TREK
Star Wars original trilogy > anything Star Trek has ever put its name on
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| Tue May 05, 2009 1:29 am |
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hgs0814
Assistant Second Unit Director
Joined: Mon Mar 02, 2009 4:25 pm Posts: 79
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 Re: STAR TREK
Assuming this was not an attempt at a flame, I wholeheartedly disagree with you. First off, ROTJ was phoned in. The production value of the first movie was bad at times. the acting was just as hit or miss as star trek and the dialogue, at least the parts that lucas wrote, just as bad as roddenberry. Both series are better taken out of the hands or their respective creators.
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| Tue May 05, 2009 10:18 am |
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Ken
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 Re: STAR TREK
Posts that are obviously intended to engender disagreement and bother to form a cogent argument > posts that are obviously intended to engender disagreement but don't bother to form a cogent argument
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| Tue May 05, 2009 11:37 am |
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James Berardinelli
Site Admin
Joined: Thu Jan 22, 2009 10:55 pm Posts: 2797 Location: Mount Laurel, NJ, USA
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 Re: STAR TREK
I have never understood why people feel compelled to compare these two franchises. Yes, they're both science fiction, but that's pretty much where the similarities end. Their roots, aims, and intentions are entirely different. If there's one negative to be presented about the new STAR TREK, it's that it seems to be trying to push STAR TREK closer to STAR WARS. And, contrary to myth, it is possible to enjoy both series for what they are. It's silliness to believe you have to belong to one camp or the other.
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| Tue May 05, 2009 12:09 pm |
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ardendulou
Gaffer
Joined: Thu Mar 26, 2009 9:21 pm Posts: 28
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 Re: STAR TREK
Fav (w/o the new one): Khan Undiscovered Country First Contact Voyage Home (or as my wife calls it, 'the whale movie') Insurrection Search for Spock Generations TMP (still have never sat through and watched the whole thing at one time. Boring) the fifth one...
I do really like Insurrection (I don't know why but I do) but when Riker gets with the joystick controller to fly the ship... good grief. Time to edit that out for Blu-Ray.
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| Tue May 05, 2009 4:35 pm |
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slksc
Second Unit Director
Joined: Thu Apr 02, 2009 4:52 pm Posts: 241 Location: North Carolina
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 Re: STAR TREK
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| Tue May 05, 2009 4:51 pm |
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Trevor
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 Re: STAR TREK
You're missing the biggest similarity: They both have massive followings, full of passionate fans and "fanboys" that want to elevate the object of their affection above anything else that has a similar following. In other words: competitive fans, and lots of them. I don't think they're just comparing those two franchises, Star Trek is just the biggest target for Star Wars fans and vice versa. Very few people compare the two in any serious/intellectual way, which is what your argument (bolded) seems to address.
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| Wed May 06, 2009 12:33 am |
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Tom Kessler
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 Re: STAR TREK
I loved this movie.
I was cautiously optimistic, encouraged by the positive word of mouth and hoping for the best. It should be mentioned that I was a casual Trekker in the '80s thanks to my mother who was slightly less casual. Last night, I had the honor of seeing this, the second (or third, because I sure do like THE MOTION PICTURE) best film in the series.
And while I sort of liked THE NEXT GENERATION crew (or at least Patrick Stewart's Picard), my interest fizzled as pulpy, efficient STAR TREK series started popping up one after another. In fact, my interest didn't return until I sat down a year or so ago with my mother to revisit the original series which has a dreamlike looseness that the newer incarnations never had.
But, man oh man, has J. J. Abrams done something amazing here! And with a fantastic script from those two TRANSFORMERS guys! Does this mean that I have to re-evaluate TRANSFORMERS!? Nah. Those ED WOOD guys wrote PROBLEM CHILD (or something), right? It just goes to show that you never can tell. Of course, that doesn't mean that I have re-evaluate PROBLEM CHILD.
Abrams has created the perfect blockbuster. He manages to re-establish a convoluted backstory in deceptively broad strokes. Even if you don't know anything about the characters or Starfleet (something which the movie never really defines except that it seems like a futuristic version of the U.S. Navy or Air Force as opposed to the planetwide fleet of a utopian Earth), you see enough in Abrams' show-and-only-tell-when-you-absolutely-have-to style that you can fill in the blanks if you care or just go with it if you don't.
J.J. tries to have it every way he can (drama, action, sci-fi, show-Lucas-how-it's-done-prequel, and about a dozen other things besides) and he somehow nails everything he's shooting for.
It's a perfect summer blockbuster (even if it's still only May). I guess there are flaws and nits to pick, but that's like trying to pick apart IRON MAN. Seriously, why? It's so rare that a tricky blockbuster-wanna-be succeeds like this, why would you waste your time criticizing it?
Just go and dig it.
If the first 10 minutes alone don't leave feeling softened up, I don't know what to say.
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| Wed May 06, 2009 10:50 am |
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Sebastian
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 Re: STAR TREK
Completely agree with you. I was a MASSIVE Star Wars fan until a couple of years ago; now I'm just "a fan." That doesn't mean I'm not excited to see the new Star Trek film; although I've never seen anything Trek-related, I'm simply watching the movie this Saturday because the trailer looks amazing. And something tells me I'm gonna like it - a lot. No need to compare, right?
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| Wed May 06, 2009 8:15 pm |
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jbucksnb
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 Re: STAR TREK
I completely agree. I was disillusioned by the past 2 installments of Star Wars (Attack of the Clones and Revenge of the Sith were terrible) and didn't even bother watching Clone Wars. Unfortunately, the best Star Wars adventure since Empire Strikes Back would be Knights of the Old Republic, which is a video game! Anyway, I had seen some of TOS and TNG, but only a few episodes, but when I saw the trailer at Cloverfield chills went up my spine. Indianapolis doesn't have a midnight showing so I'm going Friday, but I am excited!
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| Wed May 06, 2009 10:17 pm |
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nickinks
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 Re: STAR TREK
>> the dialogue, at least the parts that lucas wrote, just as bad as roddenberry
I didn't know Roddenberry wrote dialogue?
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| Wed May 06, 2009 11:12 pm |
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BANKA
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 Re: STAR TREK
BAH!!! All of you people are too mature and logical!
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| Thu May 07, 2009 1:17 am |
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Blace
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 Re: STAR TREK
Whoa you live incredibly close to me if you are in Indy. I find it weird though that Indy doesn't have a midnight showing when my small town 20 minutes away is having a showing at 7:25 Thursday night.
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| Thu May 07, 2009 1:29 am |
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Nick
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 Re: STAR TREK
Just got back a couple of hours ago, coming from a non-fan perspective (have only seen Khan which I really enjoy) it was a fun 2hrs at the cinema. It was very much a summer blockbuster but at least this one has some brains to go along with the big set pieces unlike soulless drivel like Transformers, even someone like myself who wasn't previously attached to any of the characters felt some real emotion in a few scenes. Things that let it down for me were the humour and while it was kind of amusing it just felt a bit out of place mostly in the form of Simon Pegg who i'm a fan of. From a rating point of view about a 7.5/10 for me and would spend money on the sequel if the same team is involved.
The best compliment I can give is the 2009 movie has finally given me to desire to go pick up the Original series which i've only ever seen clips from.
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| Thu May 07, 2009 4:13 am |
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kirkdog
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 Re: STAR TREK
Its an action movie,aimed at genY ,genZ,and being almost 40 myself,i enjoyed it immensely on that level,even though it lacks the introspection,character resonance and moral gravity of most of its predecessors. Not a classic but a good action movie for non trekkies(I am a huge fan) Spot on review, although i did enjoy the scotty character. Keep up the good work,(your site is generally the only review site i use)
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| Thu May 07, 2009 1:12 pm |
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