Discussion of movies and ReelThoughts topics

It is currently Thu Sep 18, 2014 8:22 am




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 131 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7  Next
SKYFALL 
Author Message
Second Unit Director
User avatar

Joined: Sat Mar 13, 2010 8:35 am
Posts: 423
Post Re: SKYFALL
botdx, some of your post would probably be better off in spoiler tags...


Tue Nov 13, 2012 10:53 pm
Profile
Assistant Second Unit Director
User avatar

Joined: Fri Mar 20, 2009 10:44 pm
Posts: 81
Post Re: SKYFALL
botdx wrote:
Which is too bad because the idea of a betrayed 00 agent turning on MI-6 is a great one indeed.
Kind of reminds me of another movie. Betrayed secret agent returns to destroy England's economy - damn, what was that called? Was that one of the Flint or Matt Helm extravaganzas? Oh WAIT...

[Reveal] Spoiler:
IT WAS GOLDENEYE!


How silly of me.

_________________
Giving money and power to government is like giving whiskey and car keys to teenage boys.
-P.J. O'Rourke


Tue Nov 13, 2012 11:48 pm
Profile
Producer
User avatar

Joined: Sun Oct 07, 2012 6:26 pm
Posts: 2157
Post Re: SKYFALL
Baelzar wrote:
Kind of reminds me of another movie. Betrayed secret agent returns to destroy England's economy - damn, what was that called? Was that one of the Flint or Matt Helm extravaganzas? Oh WAIT...

[Reveal] Spoiler:
IT WAS GOLDENEYE!


How silly of me.

[Reveal] Spoiler:
Therefore, GoldenEye and Skyfall are the same movie.


(In case the sarcasm isn't translating, I will point out that they are not. I will further point out that if you're going to criticize one 007 movie for reusing an idea from a previous one, you pretty much have to criticize all of them. At least this one uses it to fresh purpose, and never mind that it's a damn good purpose.)

_________________
The temptation is to like what you should like--not what you do like... another temptation is to come up with an interesting reason for liking it that may not actually be the reason you like it.


Wed Nov 14, 2012 4:00 am
Profile
Gaffer

Joined: Sun Dec 20, 2009 4:00 pm
Posts: 21
Post Re: SKYFALL
I was really enjoying the movie until the third act.

In particular I really liked the new themes of political intrigue and reevaluation of the the MI6 under the political themes expressed in the film. The grittyness of Daniel Craig's character was well developed. Honestly, all in all it was a really strong bond movie until the third act.

[Reveal] Spoiler:
The third act once they arrived at the house seemed to make no logical sense and was such a let down from grand action/set pieces set up earlier in the film. I understand the angle they were going for with the emotional connective to Judi Dench/M, but I would have much preferred all of this to take place in a new location with a grand finale than through the personal faceoff that bond experienced.

Part of this may also be my disappointment in seeing the "bond girl" die so early on. Typically bond movies end always directly connected to the bond girl central to the ending plot... unless you count M as a bond girl, that certaintly didn't happen... and Moneypenny really doesn't count as she isn't present whatsoever in the finale.


Sun Nov 18, 2012 7:48 am
Profile
Assistant Second Unit Director
User avatar

Joined: Fri Mar 20, 2009 10:44 pm
Posts: 81
Post Re: SKYFALL
Y'know what this movie reminds me of? Fan Fiction.

It hits a bunch of bullet points of what I would expect out of Bond fan fiction, including even the
[Reveal] Spoiler:
bisexual overtones/gay villain
That stuff is real popular in fanfic.

_________________
Giving money and power to government is like giving whiskey and car keys to teenage boys.
-P.J. O'Rourke


Sun Nov 18, 2012 3:42 pm
Profile
Producer
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jun 30, 2009 1:35 am
Posts: 2090
Post Re: Very minor roles for Bond Girls
forwonder wrote:
Well crafted movie, but this is the first Bond film in which the leading actress is not a Bond Girl. Judi Dench is the leading actress in this film, in terms of screen time. James Bond is becoming more like Jason Bourne, and I don't know if that's a good thing.


I really liked Naomie Harris, though. And excuse me, I like Adele's theme song a lot (more the way she sings it and the music than the lyrics). In addition to the cinematography and editing, the soundtrack of this is excellent. I'm more fond of Casino Royale, but this is a really good film.

Edit: Note, though, no matter how many times Adele sings "This is the end," there are in fact two hours of film left. Otherwise this would be the shortest feature film since "Apocalypse Now."

_________________
Evil does not wear a bonnet!--Mr. Tinkles


Sun Nov 18, 2012 9:37 pm
Profile
Producer
User avatar

Joined: Sun Oct 07, 2012 6:26 pm
Posts: 2157
Post Re: SKYFALL
Yeah, plus the foregone conclusion that Bond wasn't actually dead. Odds were low that the rest of the movie would be about M mourning Bond then doing paperwork for a couple hours.

_________________
The temptation is to like what you should like--not what you do like... another temptation is to come up with an interesting reason for liking it that may not actually be the reason you like it.


Sun Nov 18, 2012 11:24 pm
Profile
Assistant Director
User avatar

Joined: Sat Feb 18, 2012 5:22 pm
Posts: 768
Location: Hobart Australia
Post Re: SKYFALL
I agree pretty much with Berardinelli, James Berardinelli ;) here 3 stars and half out of four for me too!
A short non spoiler review of Skyfall plus my ranking of Bond films 8-)
I wrote a review with spoilers in the skyfall thread of the general forum too
Cheers

_________________
The pen is truly mightier than the sword
The Joker (Batman - 1989)


Mon Nov 19, 2012 7:55 am
Profile WWW
Cinematographer
User avatar

Joined: Wed Oct 10, 2012 4:40 pm
Posts: 556
Post Re: SKYFALL
KelsoH wrote:
[Reveal] Spoiler:
The third act once they arrived at the house seemed to make no logical sense and was such a let down from grand action/set pieces set up earlier in the film. I understand the angle they were going for with the emotional connective to Judi Dench/M, but I would have much preferred all of this to take place in a new location with a grand finale than through the personal faceoff that bond experienced.

Part of this may also be my disappointment in seeing the "bond girl" die so early on. Typically bond movies end always directly connected to the bond girl central to the ending plot... unless you count M as a bond girl, that certaintly didn't happen... and Moneypenny really doesn't count as she isn't present whatsoever in the finale.

[Reveal] Spoiler:
The 3rd act where they went to Skyfall was precisely because they forced Silva to fight in an environment where time didn't move forward and thus where his prowess as a cyberterrorist wouldn't be nearly as useful. The fact that Bond killed him with a knife was the exclamation mark on that point, especially after Finney's character told him that sometimes the old ways were the best ones. It made sense to the plot and was a fine way to cap the film, but I guess not everyone likes such things.

Severine was never central to the plot aside from providing Bond with a lead to the main villain after he was unable to get the information from the assassin before he fell to his death. Also, have you seen previous Bond films? If you had, you'd know that Bond girls die all the time: Tracy Di Vincenzo, Jill Masterson, Xenia Onatopp, Miss Fields, Vesper Lynd, Solange, Electra King, Fiona Volpe, Aki, Plenty O'Toole, and so on and so on...

_________________
"Attack ships on fire off the shoulder of Orion. I watched C-beams glitter in the dark near the Tannhauser Gate. All those moments will be lost in time, like tears in the rain."


Mon Nov 19, 2012 9:43 pm
Profile
Producer
User avatar

Joined: Sun Oct 07, 2012 6:26 pm
Posts: 2157
Post Re: SKYFALL
unwindfilms wrote:
I agree pretty much with Berardinelli, James Berardinelli ;)

Hahaha, I was just thinking about that earlier.

_________________
The temptation is to like what you should like--not what you do like... another temptation is to come up with an interesting reason for liking it that may not actually be the reason you like it.


Mon Nov 19, 2012 10:15 pm
Profile
Gaffer

Joined: Mon Jul 25, 2011 10:28 pm
Posts: 2
Post Re: SKYFALL
I really agreed with some of the criticism, and with KelsoH in particular.

I really enjoyed the first 2/3s of the movie. But the final act was very predictable.

[Reveal] Spoiler:
I agree that the early death of the bond girl was a huge letdown. That character adds a certain spice to Bond movies.

And I understand that they were trying to avoid technology. But weren't there more interesting locations they could have used? More interesting weaponry?

The movie opened very strong, but as soon as they captured him it was very obvious that he wanted to be caught.


Overall this was a very good effort. The mood and pacing were right. I thought it was easily better than Casino Royale (the poker scenes killed the movie for me.). Bonus marks for the homages to classic bond movies, which seemed to be very tasteful.


Wed Nov 21, 2012 5:27 pm
Profile
Producer
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jun 28, 2011 9:04 am
Posts: 2469
Location: Lancashire, England.
Post Re: SKYFALL
Ken wrote:
A lot of people keep likening Craig's Bond to Jason Bourne. In what ways, specifically? I feel the need to ask, because I feel like it's a criticism that is expected to be implicitly understood, but I'm not sure it is. At least, not for me.



I don't get it either. Bond is nothing like Bourne. For a start Bond is a human being, whilst Bourne is apparently a completely blameless robot.

_________________
... because I'm a wild animal


Fri Nov 23, 2012 8:35 am
Profile
Cinematographer
User avatar

Joined: Wed Oct 10, 2012 4:40 pm
Posts: 556
Post Re: SKYFALL
NotHughGrant wrote:
Ken wrote:
A lot of people keep likening Craig's Bond to Jason Bourne. In what ways, specifically? I feel the need to ask, because I feel like it's a criticism that is expected to be implicitly understood, but I'm not sure it is. At least, not for me.



I don't get it either. Bond is nothing like Bourne. For a start Bond is a human being, whilst Bourne is apparently a completely blameless robot.

I got the impression that the comparisons between Bond and Bourne had more to do with the feel of the films rather than their lead characters, as I agree that they are not alike in that regard. Basically, Daniel Craig's tenure as 007 gave us films that made his Bond arguably the easiest for we average people to relate to, with scenes like the following:

[Reveal] Spoiler:
- The testicle torture scene in Casino Royale and his subsequent hospitalization.
- The opening of Skyfall with him getting shot and falling to his near-death.
- His talk about killing to Camille in Quantum of Solace.
- His realization that he was wrong about Vesper despite having called her a "bitch" when reporting her death to M in Casino Royale.
- His drinking contest in Skyfall with the scorpion and subsequent moping in the bar the morning after.


Craig's films are grittier and more realistic than all of the Bond films that came before with the exceptions of Connery's first 3 films. I'd also argue that as a result, Craig's Bond films have come the closest to capturing the essence of Bond's character from the original Fleming novels since Connery in his early films.

_________________
"Attack ships on fire off the shoulder of Orion. I watched C-beams glitter in the dark near the Tannhauser Gate. All those moments will be lost in time, like tears in the rain."


Sat Nov 24, 2012 4:57 pm
Profile
Gaffer

Joined: Thu Jan 28, 2010 2:26 pm
Posts: 9
Post Re: SKYFALL
I enjoyed the movie but was disappointed. I hadn't watched any of the previews and had no idea what to expect.

Disappointment basically sums up my problems with the movie, too. It seems like every promising idea that was introduced wound up being a let-down when the payoff came. The settings and visuals were worth the price of admission and the performances were good all-around. It was stylish and entertaining but could have been a lot better.

[Reveal] Spoiler: Disappointing plot threads
Examples of disappointing threads:

The Bond-only gun: I got the idea-- give bond a couple of really simple gadgets and weave them into the action creatively. The result was not clever at all. After a brawl the other guy pulled it out of Bond's jacket and dramatically tries to shoot it.

M's moral ambiguity: Silva suggests M had an ulterior motive for lying to Bond about his test scores. This is never really resolved. I can think of plenty of valid minor reasons (she trusted him and wanted him to have confidence, etc.) that shouldn't have to be spelled out-- but if that's the case then why have Silva draw so much attention to it? That made me want an answer that never came.

The Bond Girl: Her tatto, her background, her attitude-- she was intriguing and I wanted to know more. Then she got killed off simply to establish the otherwise charismatic Silva as a guy we are supposed to hate. (I'm aware that this sometimes happens to Bond girls, and if this sort of disappointment wasn't a recurring theme in this movie then I wouldn't mention it).

The Brawl in the Shanghai Skyscraper: After a lengthy, tension-building sequence showing Bond carefully sneaking up on Patrice, the only payoff is a brief reprise of their scuffle on the train. No face-off, no clever tricks from Bond to incapacitate the guy for questioning, just another fistfight.

MI6: A good portion of the movie was devoted to setting up conflict concerning M and the succession of MI6 leadership. All that conflict is just cancelled when M dies in the field. Poetic justice, perhaps, and a moving end for the character, but still a bit disappointing from a plot perspective.

Q/Bond: The conflict between these two guys starts out fantastically then doesn't go anywhere at all. By the end, Q is just a standard nerd filling the tech slot on the team.

Other minor irritations:

The sermonizing during the court scene about the nature of espionage and future of MI6. It wasn't deep or insightful at all and was just distracting.

Neither Silva or Patrice were particularly interesting quarry for the chase scenes. Silva's was better than Patrice. Compare them, though, to the opening chase scene in Casino Royale. Nothing in this movie came even close to that. Silva's train missile bit was cool, but somehow he didn't quite pull off Magnificent Bastard

The flashlight in the field, seriously? The wise old guy is as foolish as Pippin and Merry on Weathertop?
Again-- no single one of those problems would be enough to kill the movie for me, if it was just that. But the movie was so full of minor problems that I couldn't enjoy the big picture (which doesn't hold up well under scrutiny, either, apart from the cinematography and maybe the music and sound).


Sat Nov 24, 2012 11:24 pm
Profile
Cinematographer

Joined: Sun Oct 07, 2012 8:09 pm
Posts: 724
Post Re: SKYFALL
I'm forgoing spoiler tags because this thread is 3 pages deep and weeks old - people probably shouldn't be reading this far if they don't want to have the movie spoiled.

Goladus wrote:
The Bond-only gun: I got the idea-- give bond a couple of really simple gadgets and weave them into the action creatively. The result was not clever at all. After a brawl the other guy pulled it out of Bond's jacket and dramatically tries to shoot it.


It's designed as a funny, lighter moment and, like the knife that ultimately kills Silva, another example of "the ways of the past" still being useful. I thought it was a clever use of the Bond/gadgetry gimmick in service of the movie's theme.

Goladus wrote:
M's moral ambiguity: Silva suggests M had an ulterior motive for lying to Bond about his test scores. This is never really resolved. I can think of plenty of valid minor reasons (she trusted him and wanted him to have confidence, etc.) that shouldn't have to be spelled out-- but if that's the case then why have Silva draw so much attention to it? That made me want an answer that never came.


I think the movie makes it pretty clear that M passed Bond on his tests because she trusts him above all other agents. For such a detached, logical, and cold woman to be accused of being too sentimental by Mallory speaks volumes. Silva was trying to use that to convince Bond of the opposite - that she didn't care about him, or anyone else. It's a fairly common tactic for villains to use. I wouldn't say he was drawing attention to the truth, but instead was trying to spin the truth in his favor. It's a basic attempt at manipulation.

Goladus wrote:
The Brawl in the Shanghai Skyscraper: After a lengthy, tension-building sequence showing Bond carefully sneaking up on Patrice, the only payoff is a brief reprise of their scuffle on the train. No face-off, no clever tricks from Bond to incapacitate the guy for questioning, just another fistfight.


That's a pretty impressive fight scene, shot with an artistic flair. It's another way to examine identity in the movie. Take the opening shot of a blurry Bond coming in to focus as he walks down a hallway(something of a statement of intent by the film). The Shanghai fight scene, shot with both participants silhouetted, literally tries to confuse who is who until the camera flips over the edge and we see Bond holding Patrice. I mean, of course we know Bond is the winner, but it's an example of the movie using it's visuals once again to make a point.

Goladus wrote:
MI6: A good portion of the movie was devoted to setting up conflict concerning M and the succession of MI6 leadership. All that conflict is just cancelled when M dies in the field. Poetic justice, perhaps, and a moving end for the character, but still a bit disappointing from a plot perspective.


Maybe it's a little too neatly wrapped up for your taste, but from a plot standpoint it makes absolute sense. M is punished for finally putting her feelings for Bond above the job and country (when she passes him on his tests). The film presents a world full of conflict, where the concerns of the future and the sins of the past are equal influences on the present. That decision by M is both right and wrong. It's a plot point that works on a thematic level, redeems the character, yet also condemns her in a broader context.

Goladus wrote:
Q/Bond: The conflict between these two guys starts out fantastically then doesn't go anywhere at all. By the end, Q is just a standard nerd filling the tech slot on the team.


Why does it necessarily need to "go somewhere"? The contrast between the 2, like just about everything in the film, is used for thematic purposes. Their conversation in the art gallery about time is about as close as the movie comes to outrightly stating it's purpose. It's a wonderful scene. I just don't understand the logic of their interactions having to have some kind of ultimate payoff. Q is a recurring supporting character. He's there for a practical purpose, and Skyfall has the balls to use him as something a little more.


Mon Nov 26, 2012 2:52 pm
Profile
Gaffer

Joined: Fri Mar 06, 2009 10:02 pm
Posts: 27
Post Re: SKYFALL
James Berardinelli wrote:
Alex wrote:
James, do you think Skyfall could be a contender for a major Oscar? Best Picture? Director? Actor/Actress?


Considering that the Best Picture category has been widened, a nomination is likely. Best Director is possible given that it's Mendes, but I'd say that's a longshot. No Best Actor or Actress, but Dame Judi could have a shot at Best Supporting Actress.

A few interesting tidbits: No Bond film has ever been nominated for a major Oscar. There have been a smattering of technical nominations and even a few wins.
None of the John Barry scores/songs have been nominated for an Oscar. The three Bond songs to be nominated ("Live and Let Die," "Nobody Does it Better," "For Your Eyes Only") were from three non-Barry Bonds. The only score nominated was Marvin Hamlisch's (THE SPY WHO LOVED ME), which is pretty awful.

Bond has fared a little better at the Golden Globes, but credibility is an issue here. In 1970, George Lazenby was nominated for Most Promising Newcomer.


Mr. Berardinelli,
Just a little trivia, but you (sarcastically) predicted that Dame Judi Dench would eventually be nominated for playing M. Here's the link to where you said that:
http://www.reelviews.net/comment/021901.html
How would you feel about this "prediction" coming to fruition next January? :) Do you think she deserves a nod for her work in SKYFALL?


Tue Nov 27, 2012 6:18 pm
Profile
Site Admin

Joined: Thu Jan 22, 2009 10:55 pm
Posts: 3146
Location: Mount Laurel, NJ, USA
Post Re: SKYFALL
Thom20 wrote:
Mr. Berardinelli,
Just a little trivia, but you (sarcastically) predicted that Dame Judi Dench would eventually be nominated for playing M. Here's the link to where you said that:
http://www.reelviews.net/comment/021901.html
How would you feel about this "prediction" coming to fruition next January? :) Do you think she deserves a nod for her work in SKYFALL?


It's almost scary you dug that one up. I didn't remember writing it.

At any rate, I think she will be nominated in part because the Supporting Actress category is so weak. I doubt she'll win, though. Anne Hathaway should walk away with that award, and deservedly so.


Thu Nov 29, 2012 8:21 pm
Profile WWW
Producer
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jun 30, 2009 1:35 am
Posts: 2090
Post Re: SKYFALL
James Berardinelli wrote:
Thom20 wrote:
Mr. Berardinelli,
Just a little trivia, but you (sarcastically) predicted that Dame Judi Dench would eventually be nominated for playing M. Here's the link to where you said that:
http://www.reelviews.net/comment/021901.html
How would you feel about this "prediction" coming to fruition next January? :) Do you think she deserves a nod for her work in SKYFALL?


It's almost scary you dug that one up. I didn't remember writing it.

At any rate, I think she will be nominated in part because the Supporting Actress category is so weak. I doubt she'll win, though. Anne Hathaway should walk away with that award, and deservedly so.


Amy Adams has a shot for "The Master." Jennifer Lawrence should walk away with Best Actress, although it could be for "The Hunger Games" rather than "Silver Linings Playbook". The problem will be finding four nominees to compete with her (except for the girl in "Beasts of the Southern Wild.")

PS: Are you thinking Hathaway for "TDKR"? I'm thinking she's going to get nominated for "Les Miserables," and likely win.

_________________
Evil does not wear a bonnet!--Mr. Tinkles


Thu Nov 29, 2012 11:27 pm
Profile
Site Admin

Joined: Thu Jan 22, 2009 10:55 pm
Posts: 3146
Location: Mount Laurel, NJ, USA
Post Re: SKYFALL
Syd Henderson wrote:
James Berardinelli wrote:
Thom20 wrote:
Mr. Berardinelli,
Just a little trivia, but you (sarcastically) predicted that Dame Judi Dench would eventually be nominated for playing M. Here's the link to where you said that:
http://www.reelviews.net/comment/021901.html
How would you feel about this "prediction" coming to fruition next January? :) Do you think she deserves a nod for her work in SKYFALL?


It's almost scary you dug that one up. I didn't remember writing it.

At any rate, I think she will be nominated in part because the Supporting Actress category is so weak. I doubt she'll win, though. Anne Hathaway should walk away with that award, and deservedly so.


Amy Adams has a shot for "The Master." Jennifer Lawrence should walk away with Best Actress, although it could be for "The Hunger Games" rather than "Silver Linings Playbook". The problem will be finding four nominees to compete with her (except for the girl in "Beasts of the Southern Wild.")

PS: Are you thinking Hathaway for "TDKR"? I'm thinking she's going to get nominated for "Les Miserables," and likely win.


I'm thinking she'll be nominated and win for LES MIS. She's spectacular.

As for Lead Actress, Lawrence might get a challenge from Naomi Watts. Also Jessica Chastain.


Mon Dec 03, 2012 5:13 pm
Profile WWW
Gaffer

Joined: Fri Mar 06, 2009 10:02 pm
Posts: 27
Post Re: SKYFALL
James Berardinelli wrote:


As for Lead Actress, Lawrence might get a challenge from Naomi Watts. Also Jessica Chastain.


Are you thinking Lawrence will be up for SILVER LININGS PLAYBOOK, rather than THE HUNGER GAMES? THE HUNGER GAMES doesn't seem to be the type of film that gets major nominations, unless the field is weak.


Mon Dec 03, 2012 5:26 pm
Profile
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 131 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7  Next


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Google Adsense [Bot] and 3 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group.
Designed by Vjacheslav Trushkin for Free Forum/DivisionCore.
Translated by Xaphos © 2007, 2008, 2009 phpBB.fr