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THE DARK KNIGHT RISES 
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Gaffer
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Post Re: THE DARK KNIGHT RISES
It was a great film. But it wasn't as good as the other two. It does have problems in spots, like with the editing and there being too many characters that I didn't really care about. And questions that cropped up but were never answered like,
[Reveal] Spoiler:
where did Selina Kyle get her suit? And what was that thing she had on her head? Was that answered?


And also how John Blake at the end
[Reveal] Spoiler:
turning out to be Robin doesn't really make too much sense.


Thu Jul 19, 2012 1:45 am
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Post Re: THE DARK KNIGHT RISES
Vexer wrote:
I didn't really care much about the ending one way or the other, the film as a whole was a dissapointment for me, so a more clear-cut ending wouldn't have really done much good anyways.


How was it lazy though?


Thu Jul 19, 2012 3:20 am
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Post Re: THE DARK KNIGHT RISES
Vexer wrote:
Azilis wrote:
Ken wrote:
Maybe it's maddening for people who can't accept that sometimes filmmakers don't intend for there to be a definitive answer to all the questions.


That's not the issue here, though, because normally I prefer things to be open-ended. I hate it when writers go out of their way to tie up every loose end possible, and I usually like endings that are left open to interpretation. Inception didn't feel like it was meant to be open-ended, though, and Nolan points incredibly clearly towards a negative interpretation before "it wobbled". If you're going to show it wobble, show it falling down . . . no reason to cut to a black screen except to insert an "open to interpretation" ending at the very last second where it doesn't belong.

The only other time I felt as irritated at an ending like this was reading Haruki Murakami's Norwegian Wood, and that one at least didn't feel so out-of-place.

Well i'm a sucker for endings that tie up all loose ends, I guess that makes me old fashioned, I don't mind an ambigious ending once in awhile, but the ending to Inception just felt more lazy then anything else.


Inception may be many things, but lazy ain't one of 'em!

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Thu Jul 19, 2012 9:12 am
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Post Re: THE DARK KNIGHT RISES
Ken wrote:
At the risk of trying to speak for JB, it's good to maintain a sense of perspective/balance/whatever... and you can't do that unless you calibrate your understanding of what is good and what is bad. Example: if you want to know what makes a good James Bond movie, you have to include the bad ones to know what doesn't fit the criteria.

Either that, or JB is a masochist. Exposing himself to Battleship and Ghost Rider: SoV might be evidence for that.


Continuity is important and it's always interesting to see if I feel the same about a movie I haven't seen in a few years. My opinion of SPIDER-MAN 3 has not changed. Actually, I fell asleep during the re-watch and when I woke up after missing about 10 minutes, I didn't bother to rewind.


Thu Jul 19, 2012 9:40 am
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Post Re: THE DARK KNIGHT RISES
scottish_punk wrote:
Sean wrote:
Mr. Berardinelli, would you say that "The Dark Knight Rises" is superior to "Marvel's The Avengers"?


A very good question, indeed.

I do have a rather odd inquiry, non-spoiler related. I'm curious if TDKR has any uses of the F-bomb. I ask due to the fact that no other Batman movie has used it, and TDKR was specifically singled out for language.


THE AVENGERS is more fun, but I believe TDKR is more fulfilling. So it will ultimately be ahead of THE AVENGERS in a year-end list.

I don't recall any f-bombs in TDKR. Can't say definitively there isn't any, but I don't think so.


Thu Jul 19, 2012 9:43 am
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Post Re: THE DARK KNIGHT RISES
JayBob wrote:

And also how John Blake at the end
[Reveal] Spoiler:
turning out to be Robin doesn't really make too much sense.


[Reveal] Spoiler:
That's an in-joke. It's not intended for Blake to be Batman's sidekick "Robin." This was just a wink-wink nod-nod to fans.


Thu Jul 19, 2012 9:46 am
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Post Re: THE DARK KNIGHT RISES
The reviews have been positive, but nowhere near as good as the first two. I still can't help feeling like I'm in for at least somewhat of a letdown. I am going to see all three in IMAX back to back to back tonight. That should be fun.

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Thu Jul 19, 2012 9:53 am
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Post Re: THE DARK KNIGHT RISES
PeachyPete wrote:
If you need to know whether or not he's in "actual" reality, I'd argue that you're largely missing the point of the film.

This is how I chose to saw the end of Inception as well. While the top wobbled a little before the cut, does Cobb really care?

On the The Dark Knight Rises, I just watched it. I thought it was very good as well. 3.5 stars seem spot on. Along with what James said of the over-reaching story. Parts of the film felt a little rushed because of the multiple elements put in place. Tom Hardy I thought did a fitting Bane, but again, there was not much to delve into his character, I feel. Or into any character. I felt some parts could've been trimmed to give more focus on the leads.

[Reveal] Spoiler: On the ending
While the movie very nicely tied up the future of the Batman and left a way for WB to continue, who thinks that Batman without Bruce Wayne is worth watching? Even the animated Batman Beyond had an old Bruce Wayne as the mentor to the new Batman.


Thu Jul 19, 2012 11:38 am
Post Re: THE DARK KNIGHT RISES
Copied from the last movie you watched thread

Quote:
Not as good as The Dark Knight, but that feels more like a matter of preference, since the tone and structure were quite different. The Dark Knight Rises is more conventional than the previous one. For me, the Joker had added a unique tension and unpredictability to that story; he was like a series of ticking time bombs that can go off anytime, anywhere, to anyone. The whole movie was in constant tension. For some, that became a detriment late in the third act when things may seem tiring with the constant climaxes. There's some truth to that, but I love the unpredictability of it all, and it ended on a perfect scene.

TDKR has more of a three act structure: the first act setting things up, the second act putting plans in action; and the third act is resolution. For me, there are a few stumbles, mostly in the first act and overlapped a bit into the second. This was a movie with a lot of ideas, characters, and plot threads; so many that even 2.45 hours may seem like it will not be enough. Nolan almost pulled it off, but certain characters and a plot point or two should have been given more time to breathe, especially if some of the things/characters would become important late in the proceeding. It doesn't quite hurt the quality of the film much overall, but it made the first act feel a little bit rushed setting things up, and exposition-heavy. A rewatch would help clear things up and clarify my feeling on it.

Bane here was more of a force of nature with a plan than an uncontrollable freak. The nature of the role doesn't allow for a lot of flexibility, but Tom Hardy did very well with what he was given, doing a lot of threatening and menacing with only his eyes and pose. Anne Hathaway also surprised; Catwoman has more background than I initially thought, and she played several aspects of her character well, while injecting light-hearted moment into the grim proceeding. Marion Cotillard was kinda wasted in an underwritten role (or maybe it just ended up on the cutting room floor); only towards the third act that she was given something to do. Joseph Gordon-Levitt was strong as a hothead outsider integrating into the Batman's world.

There are 2 things this movie has over the previous one. For the longest movie in the franchise, it also feels like the shortest; great pacing there. And the last half (last hour?) of the movie was just incredible, easily topping anything in all the 3 films. For once in Nolan's Batman trilogy, the climax is the best part. Every plot thread comes together. Every character plays a part. Nolan's talent of crosscutting events shines; from a certain point onward, the movie just builds and builds continuously into a prolonged, grand and stirring climax. And the final moments were perfect: a sometimes bittersweet, mostly rousing send-off for all the characters. It's the best ending I could ever hoped for to the trilogy.

3.5/4.0 (Came this very, very close to full 4.0 and still not sure; a rewatch is needed)


Kinda drunk right now, more random thoughts tomorrow.


Thu Jul 19, 2012 3:29 pm
Post Re: THE DARK KNIGHT RISES
Azilis wrote:
Ken wrote:
Maybe it's maddening for people who can't accept that sometimes filmmakers don't intend for there to be a definitive answer to all the questions.


That's not the issue here, though, because normally I prefer things to be open-ended. I hate it when writers go out of their way to tie up every loose end possible, and I usually like endings that are left open to interpretation. Inception didn't feel like it was meant to be open-ended, though, and Nolan points incredibly clearly towards a negative interpretation before "it wobbled". If you're going to show it wobble, show it falling down . . . no reason to cut to a black screen except to insert an "open to interpretation" ending at the very last second where it doesn't belong.

The only other time I felt as irritated at an ending like this was reading Haruki Murakami's Norwegian Wood, and that one at least didn't feel so out-of-place.


With the phone call and the 'well what now?' sort of thing? it's been years since I read it, I'd best go back and do it again! Amazing book, never caught the movie though.


Thu Jul 19, 2012 9:08 pm
Gaffer

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Post Re: THE DARK KNIGHT RISES
moviemkr7 wrote:
The reviews have been positive, but nowhere near as good as the first two. I still can't help feeling like I'm in for at least somewhat of a letdown. I am going to see all three in IMAX back to back to back tonight. That should be fun.


?

By any metric, The Dark Knight Rises has received better reviews than Batman Begins. It's really only about a hair away from The Dark Knight on Metacritic and Rotten Tomatoes. Critically, it's well up to the franchise's standards, even if it isn't quite as glowing as the second film. That's impressive, considering the somewhat sensationalized nature of The Dark Knight's release.


Thu Jul 19, 2012 11:09 pm
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Post Re: THE DARK KNIGHT RISES
Just got back from seeing a midnight screening, and I'm fairly underwhelmed. Maybe part of it has to do with high expectations, but there are some fairly significant issues that I have a hard time getting over. Even worse, unlike the previous two films, I never felt much excitement for what was happening onscreen; everything felt obligatory. I doubt this one is going to have the same kind of ravenous support as the previous film.


Fri Jul 20, 2012 5:08 am
Post Re: THE DARK KNIGHT RISES
I got back from a midnight screening of this film and I have to say: I liked it a lot. It wasn't as good for me as TDK, but it was still a great film. More detailed thoughts:

[Reveal] Spoiler:
- I can see why detractors didn't like the film, particularly when compared to TDK: the plot was fairly generic and was in fact a rehash of the plot from Batman Begins with the revenge angle added in. The main difference between this film and TDK was that there wasn't as much tension, as the Joker was a more erratic and unpredictable foe.
- I was right about the role of Blake (Gordon-Levitt), though I wish it was going to be as the new Batman rather than as Robin, given that the latter has been known more for being a sidekick. It would have reinforced the idea of Batman being a symbol, an idea rather than just a costumed adventurer. Oh well.
- With regards to the ending: I never expected Bruce Wayne to die. As to the lack of autopilot that was mentioned earlier, I believe that the scene where the techs mentioned to Fox near the end about it being fixed 6 months before the aftermath of the battle was the way to explain how he escaped the nuclear blast.
- This film got points for making Matthew Modine die, even if it was heroically. For some reason, I've found him to be annoying to watch on film.
- Miranda Tate being Talia Al'Ghul was for me a nice twist, even with the hint that was given when the story of the child escaping the pit was told with the prisoner (Bane) who protected the child.
- Nolan did a good job with staying true to the comic stories when making this film with some of the details: Bane injuring Batman's back as the final blow to their first fight, Wayne ending up with Kyle at the end as she was said to be his true love in the comics, and Talia's villainy, given that while she was a love interest, she ended up becoming evil later.
- One thing I liked about the ending was that Nolan constructed it so as to make any further attempts to continue the storyline in future films would be extremely difficult if not impossible to pull of without making the filmmakers look like total money-grabbing douchebags, even with the way it was left open-ended. It was his way of telling the studio, "You may have roped me into making a 3rd film, but good luck trying to keep this cash cow going once I am done with it.". Well played, Nolan.


All in all, it was a fitting way to end Nolan's tenure at the helm of the Batman franchise and a well-made film.


Fri Jul 20, 2012 5:27 am
Post Re: THE DARK KNIGHT RISES
JayBob wrote:
And questions that cropped up but were never answered like,
[Reveal] Spoiler:
where did Selina Kyle get her suit? And what was that thing she had on her head? Was that answered?

For me, this question falls into the category of "It didn't really matter to the plot and theme of the film."

JayBob wrote:
And also how John Blake at the end
[Reveal] Spoiler:
turning out to be Robin doesn't really make too much sense.

[Reveal] Spoiler:
Well, in the comics, the original Robin (Dick Grayson) did take over as Batman when Bruce Wayne was thought to be dead, so if they did make a film that tried to continue this storyline, they could simply use that angle. Also, remember that Robin is part of Blake's actual name as opposed to a callsign or heroic alias.


Fri Jul 20, 2012 5:31 am
Post Re: THE DARK KNIGHT RISES
yslee wrote:
[Reveal] Spoiler: On the ending
While the movie very nicely tied up the future of the Batman and left a way for WB to continue, who thinks that Batman without Bruce Wayne is worth watching? Even the animated Batman Beyond had an old Bruce Wayne as the mentor to the new Batman.

Yep, this is why I thought Nolan did a great job with making an ending that would make it very difficult for the studio to continue the franchise using this storyline, effectively making it a dick move to even try.


Fri Jul 20, 2012 5:32 am
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Post Re: THE DARK KNIGHT RISES
[Reveal] Spoiler:
Who says the next one would be without Batman? Bruce Wayne is alive so anything is possible. Though they would likely have to recast since Bale wouldn't do it without Nolan and Nolan says he's definitely done.


BTW, Marion Cotillard is a total liar.

[Reveal] Spoiler:
She went on record to say that she does NOT play Talia Al-Ghul and she does play her.


Never trusting a word that comes out of her mouth again.


Fri Jul 20, 2012 10:29 am
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Post Re: THE DARK KNIGHT RISES
ilovemovies wrote:
BTW, Marion Cotillard is a total liar.

[Reveal] Spoiler:
She went on record to say that she does NOT play Talia Al-Ghul and she does play her.


Never trusting a word that comes out of her mouth again.


In her defense, it would have ruined a major twist in the movie. I'd almost consider it a justified lie. It's not like it hurt anyone


Fri Jul 20, 2012 11:11 am
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Gaffer

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Post Re: THE DARK KNIGHT RISES
Dragonbeard wrote:
With the phone call and the 'well what now?' sort of thing? it's been years since I read it, I'd best go back and do it again! Amazing book, never caught the movie though.


Yeah, and that ending doesn't really generate the same feeling for me going back and reading it again. It actually seems to be somewhat appropriate given events leading up to it. Inception's ending is as bad as ever on a 2nd viewing. I just can't buy that it was really meant to be open-ended. There is so much in the final minute pointing to a negative or "sad" ending, that it feels like Nolan decided at the last second to throw in some ambiguity for people who don't like sad endings.

BTW, I read some pretty lukewarm reviews of the Norwegian Wood movie back when it was released, so I never went out of my way to see it. Probably will at some point.


Fri Jul 20, 2012 7:17 pm
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Post Re: THE DARK KNIGHT RISES
Azilis wrote:
Dragonbeard wrote:
With the phone call and the 'well what now?' sort of thing? it's been years since I read it, I'd best go back and do it again! Amazing book, never caught the movie though.


Yeah, and that ending doesn't really generate the same feeling for me going back and reading it again. It actually seems to be somewhat appropriate given events leading up to it. Inception's ending is as bad as ever on a 2nd viewing. I just can't buy that it was really meant to be open-ended. There is so much in the final minute pointing to a negative or "sad" ending, that it feels like Nolan decided at the last second to throw in some ambiguity for people who don't like sad endings.

BTW, I read some pretty lukewarm reviews of the Norwegian Wood movie back when it was released, so I never went out of my way to see it. Probably will at some point.


I do remember the ending of the book being a slight anti-climax (no pun intended...) but then thinking back, it also conveyed how pretty confused the guy must have been by that point!

As for Batman 3... loved it. I love what Nolan has done with the franchise and I just cannot see how anyone else can do it justice. Someone mentioned a comparison to ROTK before and I have to say that yes, it pretty much is the best ending to a trilogy since that (Harry Potter was a bit different. Thanks to stupid decisions made earlier in the series, the last couple of movies were a bit not great!)

Incidentally, I was appalled to hear about what happened in the States at a showing of Batman. Just, what the fuck :(


Fri Jul 20, 2012 11:02 pm
Post Re: THE DARK KNIGHT RISES
I'm interested in the board's opinion about this, as well as JB's.....

I have a few friends who are die hard comic book fans and love Batman the most. But while they liked Batman Begins and The Dark Knight, they HATED this movie because of the liberties taken with characters' backgrounds as well as the ending.

[Reveal] Spoiler:
Their main complaint is that Bruce Wayne would NEVER in a million years retire from being Batman and make himself appear to be a martyr. He'd keep fighting the good fight forever because he made a promise to his parents to do so. The think the character has been essentially ruined the way this movie plays out.


My counter argument, and it's something I have said to these guys many times before, is that a movie is an adaptation of a comic book, not a slavish, point-by-point regurgitation. Everything this Batman does is consistent with how he acted in the first two movies. If that's not exactly how it played out in the comics, oh well. Thoughts?


Sat Jul 21, 2012 12:21 pm
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