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THE DARK KNIGHT RISES 
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Post Re: THE DARK KNIGHT RISES
... and Nolan's "Hey, remember me? I'm an actor who was somewhat big in the 80's!" casting choice for this film was [drumroll, please]...
[Reveal] Spoiler:
Matthew Modine! (though you could possibly make a case for Tom Conti as well).


A few more random thoughts:

- Hathaway was great as Catwoman (even if she's never referred to by that name :| ), though I think her character was a bit underutilized/underwritten. Par for the course for Nolan and female characters, I guess. :?

- It was nice to see
[Reveal] Spoiler:
Dr. Jonathan Crane
back once more, making him the only character other than Bruce Wayne/Batman, Alfred, Lucius, and Commissioner Gordon to appear in all 3 films. I do wish, though, that
[Reveal] Spoiler:
he'd put on the Scarecrow mask one more time. :ugeek:


-
[Reveal] Spoiler:
Bane's death (or was it? :P )
was rather anticlimactic.

- I liked the
[Reveal] Spoiler:
Robin reference... though they kind of cheated by not naming Gordon-Levitt's character Dick Grayson... but, of course, that would've completely tipped their hand. And besides, what guy under 40 and named Richard these days goes by 'Dick' instead of 'Rich' or 'Rick' anyway? ;)


- Why was Juno Temple cast in such a small, insignificant role (Selina Kyle's friend)? It really could've (and should've, IMO) been filled by a totally unknown actress. Granted, I know she's not yet a household name, but I'd like to think enough of us serious film buffs at least somewhat know of her. Unless Temple just wanted to be involved in this movie in any way possible.


Fri Jul 27, 2012 8:49 pm
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Post Re: THE DARK KNIGHT RISES
Saw this again tonight.

Even better the second time.

I'm really beginning to find people's 'niggling issues' with the movie to be just that.

Now to try and see it at Waterloo Imax...


Fri Jul 27, 2012 10:09 pm
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Post Re: THE DARK KNIGHT RISES
H.I. McDonough wrote:

-
[Reveal] Spoiler:
Bane's death (or was it? :P )
was rather anticlimactic.




I'm tired of this criticism. I really liked
[Reveal] Spoiler:
Bane's supposed death. It was quick, direct, and followed a great fight on the steps of the prison.


Sat Jul 28, 2012 4:12 pm
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Post Re: THE DARK KNIGHT RISES
While I enjoyed the film, my main issue with it is that there are too many unnecessary scenes that make it feel overlong. To my surprise I found myself checking the time every once and a while. An example is nearly all the scenes with the orphanage, which seem to have little to no relation to the plot.

[Reveal] Spoiler:
The defenseless orphans in distress also felt a little too much like a worn cliché. Nothing interesting was done with it. It was superficial. And yes, I realise it relates to Blake's background, but this was established in his very first scene at the orphanage as well as in his confrontation with Bruce Wayne. Furtehr scenes were unnecessary.


Sun Jul 29, 2012 6:21 am
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Post Re: THE DARK KNIGHT RISES
CoenFan wrote:
While I enjoyed the film, my main issue with it is that there are too many unnecessary scenes that make it feel overlong. To my surprise I found myself checking the time every once and a while. An example is nearly all the scenes with the orphanage, which seem to have little to no relation to the plot.

[Reveal] Spoiler:
The defenseless orphans in distress also felt a little too much like a worn cliché. Nothing interesting was done with it. It was superficial. And yes, I realise it relates to Blake's background, but this was established in his very first scene at the orphanage as well as in his confrontation with Bruce Wayne. Furtehr scenes were unnecessary.


[Reveal] Spoiler:
In the end, the children moved into Bruce Wayne's house. Now the Wayne Foundation is ensuring an endless supply of Batmen or multiples at one time (some good, some bad, an Army of Batmen to fight invading aliens or some villain that clones himself thirty times - who knows)? Not necessary for TDKR, but perhaps so for additional continuity of the series if there is to be any. Only one of a least 3 such contingencies the movie appears to have made.


Sun Jul 29, 2012 3:00 pm
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Post Re: THE DARK KNIGHT RISES
CasualDad wrote:
[Reveal] Spoiler:
In the end, the children moved into Bruce Wayne's house. Now the Wayne Foundation is ensuring an endless supply of Batmen or multiples at one time (some good, some bad, an Army of Batmen to fight invading aliens or some villain that clones himself thirty times - who knows)? Not necessary for TDKR, but perhaps so for additional continuity of the series if there is to be any. Only one of a least 3 such contingencies the movie appears to have made.


No. It's still not necessary.

[Reveal] Spoiler:
The orphanage and its lack of funding were all revealed on Blake's first visit. If we had never seen the orphanage again, Wayne's last will and testament would still have made sense. The additional scenes served no narrative purpose, save perhaps for a rather hackneyed example of children in distress.


Sun Jul 29, 2012 6:05 pm
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Post Re: THE DARK KNIGHT RISES
[Reveal] Spoiler:
The children were not necessarily in distress - at least depicted less so than other were. Indeed they were asked to help clear out the block before they left the scene. Rather than being used to manipulate through distress, I would argue that they were used to manipulate (pound) the message that the heartless and incompetent feds were more worried about believing Bane than in trusting Blake - even with the kids right in front of them.

However, I still believe the main point in re-visiting the kids was to iterate and re-iterate that the Batman's driving force is not unique to Bruce Wayne. The Batman made an emphasis on saving these particular kids rather than having Blake round up every stray kid he could find. I assume that was to emphasize the need to perpetuate his traits. Maybe "Robin" Blake is the future, maybe some unidentified orphan is (perhaps with Blake as a trainer), maybe Bruce gets kicked in the nads by Selena and decides to return in an even darker mood than before. Who knows? Maybe it was not necessary, but I don't think the purpose was to manipulate through putting kids in danger.


Sun Jul 29, 2012 6:47 pm
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Post Re: THE DARK KNIGHT RISES
So I just came back from TDKR and I have burning question

[Reveal] Spoiler:
Are we left hanging on Scarecrow's fate?



I'll have more thoughts tomorrow.


Sun Jul 29, 2012 8:23 pm
Gaffer
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Post Re: THE DARK KNIGHT RISES
Just got back from seeing DKR for a second time and while I thought it was a satisfying ending that brought Nolan's trilogy full circle, I still had a few questions and things that irked me...

[Reveal] Spoiler:
Questions:
Why does Bane draw blood from the nuclear scientist to the man in the body bag? Was this to fake the scientist's death?

I don't read the comics but what is the nature of Ras al-Ghul's immortality and how did he attain it? Is he supposed to be an Obi-Wan like apparition as depicted in DKR or does he have a more tangible/physical presence in the comics?

Quibbles:
Blake's explanation for knowing Bruce Wayne's true identity was weak. I think they could have came up with something a little more creative than Blake proclaiming he knew by "just the look you had in your eyes".

Bruce and Miranda's little fireside chat was as unnecessary as Juno Temple's presence.

How does Bane know about the weapons in the basement of Wanye Enterprises? I thought Lucius Fox kept the weaponry off the books for this very reason. Maybe they could have fixed this plot hole by having the fusion reactor be housed in the basement of WE (or had that be the site of its initial construction) and made it a point to mention that Miranda was the only one who knew its location since she funded it. Then when we later discover Miranda's true identity we'd realize her inside connection to WE is what tipped the location of Lucius' stash to Bane.

I felt the DKR's representation of Gotham City was the weakest of the trilogy. I know people have expressed that Gotham is supposed to evolve between movies but seeing well-known landmarks such as the Empire State Building, Wall Street, the Freedom Towers and Saks Fifth Avenue (yes there is a huge shot of the store and its logo near the final chase sequence) really take you out of the experience. I also felt that the mood and atmosphere of danger on Gotham's streets that existed in the first two movies did not continue into DKR. Aside from the prisoners breaking out and the few shots of the rich having their homes trashed, there was no real sense of anarchy in Gotham City since the streets were largely barren (save for Blake running around and armored cars roving the streets) and soaked in sunlight during Bane's occupation (what happened to the darkness and shadow of the pervious films).

Batman instructs Catwoman to use the Batcycle to make an escape route through a tunnel, yet when Batman tells Blake to lead Gotham's citizens on an exodus away from the city, Blake only selects a handful of orphans and leads them to a military occupied bridge!

With Gotham merely minutes from blowing up, Batman and Catwoman find time to kiss again. I thought these movies were above these kinds of tropes.

One final quibble I had with the film (one fans of the Lost series can attest to) was that Nolan overdid it on the flashbacks. Ras al-Ghul's reference to his lost wife and Batman hinting to Godron about his identity did not need flashbacks to Batman Begins. Not only were these flashbacks an insult to the audience's intelligence, but they werent even major plot points so it wouldnt have been an issue if the passing references went over some people's heads. I also feel the flashbacks were a disservice to Nolan's wonderfully crafted story and cheapened the strong ties linking each film together since part of what makes rewatching such a thematically rich trilogy so rewarding and fun is going back and seeing past events from a new perspective.


Apologies for coming off nitpicky because as a whole this is my favorite movie trilogy. I am really just curious to see if people shared any of these thoughts.


Last edited by PistolPeteBoluk on Mon Jul 30, 2012 11:03 am, edited 1 time in total.



Mon Jul 30, 2012 1:27 am
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Post Re: THE DARK KNIGHT RISES
PistolPeteBoluk wrote:
[Reveal] Spoiler:
Why does Bane draw blood from the nuclear scientist to the man in the body bag? Was this to fake the scientist's death?
Exactly.

PistolPeteBoluk wrote:
I don't read the comics but what is the nature of Ras al-Ghul's immortality and how did he attain it?
He basically just takes a bath in a chemical pool he stumbled upon and named the Lazarus Pit.

PistolPeteBoluk wrote:
[Reveal] Spoiler:
One final quibble I had with the film (one fans of the Lost series can attest to) was that Nolan overdid it on the flashbacks. Ras al-Ghul's reference to his lost wife and Batman hinting to Godron about his identity did not need flashbacks to Batman Begins. Not only were these flashbacks an insult to the audience's intelligence, but they werent even major plot points so it wouldnt have been an issue if the passing references went over some people's heads. I also feel the flashbacks were a disservice to Nolan's wonderfully crafted story and cheapened the strong ties linking each film together since part of what makes rewatching such a thematically rich trilogy so rewarding and fun is going back and seeing past events from a new perspective.
I shared a lot of your quibbles, but I'm hoping when I get back to watch it again they'll be just that--quibbles. Some of them were frustrating because they could have been easily fixed, while others felt more like necessary evils. While I can see that the flashbacks may have at times felt like too much hand-holding, I thought most of them were effectively used to deepen the material this time, rather than just remind the viewer of what came before. The best example--and my favorite flashback--is the
[Reveal] Spoiler:
glimpse of Gordon putting the coat on young Bruce's shoulder.
Yes the line of dialog alone would have been enough for me to understand what was happening, but the flashback in that instance just added to the emotion of the ending. It was the closest I came the whole movie to tearing up. Well, other than anytime Michael Caine said anything.


Mon Jul 30, 2012 7:43 am
Post Re: THE DARK KNIGHT RISES
[Reveal] Spoiler:
I would have eliminated the Miranda Tate/Talia character completely, and spent more time on Batman and Selina Kyle's relationship... That way, Selina asking Batman to leave the city with her, their 2nd kiss as Batman prepares to sacrifice himself to save the city, and the last shot of them enjoying their freedom, would have been more emotional and powerful....

And I'm surprised Alfred reacted so casually when seeing Bruce Wayne after he thought he was dead. I was expecting more, maybe a smile, a tear, and a nod, then disappear.


Mon Jul 30, 2012 2:18 pm
Gaffer
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Post Re: THE DARK KNIGHT RISES
nathanmuir wrote:
[Reveal] Spoiler:
I would have eliminated the Miranda Tate/Talia character completely, and spent more time on Batman and Selina Kyle's relationship... That way, Selina asking Batman to leave the city with her, their 2nd kiss as Batman prepares to sacrifice himself to save the city, and the last shot of them enjoying their freedom, would have been more emotional and powerful....

And I'm surprised Alfred reacted so casually when seeing Bruce Wayne after he thought he was dead. I was expecting more, maybe a smile, a tear, and a nod, then disappear.


I completely agree...
[Reveal] Spoiler:
The more I think about Miranda's character, the more I think she should have been eliminated. Selina had so much more presence than Miranda and it was disappointing to ultimately find out that Bane was just her pawn. They could have also scaled down Blake's scenes with the orphans to give Selina/Batman more screen time. As for Batman's final confrontation with Bane, I would have loved to see Batman deliver a few more haymakers, demask Bane and watch the two have a pointed exchange as Bane withers in pain. My favorite bits in the Dark Knight were when the Joker and Batman were verbally squaring off against one another and I wished Bane and Selina had more of these moments.

Another thing that came to mind was how did Bane even know Batman's true identity? The Joker spends an entire movie trying to unmask Batman but Bane states it so matter of factly when they first meet. I wonder if any scenes got axed in the cutting room explaining how Bane knew about the weapon stash in Wayne Enterprises. Then Bane discovering that Batman was Bruce Wayne would have made more sense.


Mon Jul 30, 2012 3:06 pm
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Post Re: THE DARK KNIGHT RISES
[Reveal] Spoiler:
Miranda knows about the reactor and mentions as much at the party. She presumably tells Bane ;)


Mon Jul 30, 2012 4:17 pm
Post Re: THE DARK KNIGHT RISES
PistolPeteBoluk wrote:
[Reveal] Spoiler:
Another thing that came to mind was how did Bane even know Batman's true identity? The Joker spends an entire movie trying to unmask Batman but Bane states it so matter of factly when they first meet. I wonder if any scenes got axed in the cutting room explaining how Bane knew about the weapon stash in Wayne Enterprises. Then Bane discovering that Batman was Bruce Wayne would have made more sense.


[Reveal] Spoiler:
I assumed that Ra's Al Ghul knew about Batman before coming to Gotham at the end of Batman Begins. And thus that Bruce Wayne's role as the uber-defender of Gotham was well-known to the members of the League of Shadows. Even if all they knew was that Ra's had trained this dude named Bruce Wayne, who disagreed with Ra's' plan to sack Gotham, it's no major leap for League members to figure out that the masked defender of Gotham is the former pupil of Ra's Al Ghul.

I guess, put more simply: Bane / Talia knew Bruce Wayne was a former member of the League. He / She could tell by what they'd heard of Batman that he was trained by the League. 2 + 2 = Batman.


Mon Jul 30, 2012 4:37 pm
Post Re: THE DARK KNIGHT RISES
There's so much black on these pages. lol.


Mon Jul 30, 2012 6:14 pm
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Post Re: THE DARK KNIGHT RISES
Azilis wrote:
Quote:
although, inexplicably, The Dark Knight was snubbed in the Best Picture category, with The Curious Case of Benjamin Button getting a nod instead


I never understood why people expected it to get a Best Picture nomination. First off, I don't think The Dark Knight was actually deserving of it. For the most part, it was excellent, but I had a few issues with the writing (particularly some parts that felt somewhat dumbed-down from what they should have been along with a few ill-timed jokes and the whole ending sequence with Aaron Eckhart's character). Not quite Best Picture nomination quality IMO. More obviously, though, it's a comic-book movie . . . not the type of film that normally garners Best Picture nominations. I'm still amazed that all three LotR movies were nominated (though personally, I thought Fellowship was the best of the 3 and most deserving).

I guess I never expected it to get a Best Picture nod, either; I'm just more puzzled as to why James singled out "Benjamin Button" as a dubious nominee. The 5 nominees were "Slumdog Millionaire" and 4 very standard-order studio 'prestige' pictures ("Benjamin Button," "Frost/Nixon," "The Reader," and "Milk") -- of which I thought "Benjamin Button" was easily the best (and the only one to make by Top 10 of '08... albeit mostly due to being amazed by very few films that year :? ). If anything, I would've probably chose to name-drop "Milk" if I'd written this article.


Mon Jul 30, 2012 10:10 pm
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Post Re: THE DARK KNIGHT RISES
Soooo I've seen it three times...I'm surprised by this thread. Am I the only one that thinks that

[Reveal] Spoiler:
Bruce Wayne/Batman is actually dead? I was expecting there to be an epic debate over it. I'm convinced Alfred was hallucinating. A more thorough explanation will come later.


Wed Aug 15, 2012 1:39 pm
Post Re: THE DARK KNIGHT RISES
Timmy Shoes wrote:
Soooo I've seen it three times...I'm surprised by this thread. Am I the only one that thinks that

[Reveal] Spoiler:
Bruce Wayne/Batman is actually dead? I was expecting there to be an epic debate over it. I'm convinced Alfred was hallucinating. A more thorough explanation will come later.

You probably are the only one. Also, I'm willing to bet that you thought that Cobb was still dreaming at the end of Inception. Nolan is a good filmmaker, but he is not a mind-fuck artist like Cronenberg. Stick with Occam's Razor, my friend.


Wed Aug 15, 2012 2:51 pm
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Post Re: THE DARK KNIGHT RISES
Ragnarok73 wrote:
Timmy Shoes wrote:
Soooo I've seen it three times...I'm surprised by this thread. Am I the only one that thinks that

[Reveal] Spoiler:
Bruce Wayne/Batman is actually dead? I was expecting there to be an epic debate over it. I'm convinced Alfred was hallucinating. A more thorough explanation will come later.

You probably are the only one. Also, I'm willing to bet that you thought that Cobb was still dreaming at the end of Inception. Nolan is a good filmmaker, but he is not a mind-fuck artist like Cronenberg. Stick with Occam's Razor, my friend.


Nolan could have offered up something than the single most narratively convenient hallucination of all time if he intended to imply the stuff under the spoiler tag. To hallucinate one guy, fine, but the guy and girl... Alfred wants Master Bruce to tap that Catwoman so badly, it seems.

Also there's the stuff about the auto-pilot being fixed. You don't have bad expository dialogue like that and hope the audience will dare to dream of a bistro reunion.

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Wed Aug 15, 2012 7:16 pm
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Post Re: THE DARK KNIGHT RISES
Mark III wrote:
Ragnarok73 wrote:
Timmy Shoes wrote:
Soooo I've seen it three times...I'm surprised by this thread. Am I the only one that thinks that

[Reveal] Spoiler:
Bruce Wayne/Batman is actually dead? I was expecting there to be an epic debate over it. I'm convinced Alfred was hallucinating. A more thorough explanation will come later.

You probably are the only one. Also, I'm willing to bet that you thought that Cobb was still dreaming at the end of Inception. Nolan is a good filmmaker, but he is not a mind-fuck artist like Cronenberg. Stick with Occam's Razor, my friend.


Nolan could have offered up something than the single most narratively convenient hallucination of all time if he intended to imply the stuff under the spoiler tag. To hallucinate one guy, fine, but the guy and girl... Alfred wants Master Bruce to tap that Catwoman so badly, it seems.

Also there's the stuff about the auto-pilot being fixed. You don't have bad expository dialogue like that and hope the audience will dare to dream of a bistro reunion.


There's what Mark said (all of which I agree with), and then there's this:

[Reveal] Spoiler:
Say Mark's wrong and Alfred is hallucinating or seeing what he wants to see. Who cares? What purpose would that possibly serve for the film? It would just be a completely arbitrary, and, yes, stupid, twist. At least Inception's "is it real or not" had a reason for being included. This one just comes out of left field for no discernible reason.

But that's just indulging the argument. It doesn't make any sense whatsoever for Alfred to be seeing what he wants at the end.


Wed Aug 15, 2012 10:28 pm
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