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What are we to make of Frozen? 
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Post Re: What are we to make of Frozen?
I don't think there's anything wrong with films like this, that said the previews haven't made it look especially appealing to me, so I can't really envision myself seeing it.


Thu Mar 20, 2014 1:40 am
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Post Re: What are we to make of Frozen?
I can't comment on the movie itself because I haven't seen it yet, but I will say that the song Let It Go is egregiously overrated and should not have won the Oscar.


Thu Mar 20, 2014 2:26 am
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Post Re: What are we to make of Frozen?
It's as brilliant as Carly Rae Jepsen's 'Call Me Maybe'. Both songs were written by a computer that's running a program designed to simulate 1,000,000,000 monkeys banging away on 1,000,000,000 keyboards in an effort to learn how long it would take this collection of mammals to reproduce the entire works of Shakespeare. 'Let It Go' was sandwiched in between Timon of Athens and Macbeth.

I just realized that modern factory pop music is nothing but Princess formula songs. Some may feature guest vocals by Ludacris, even.

I just realized that modern factory animation is nothing but an extended music video to a song featuring guest vocals by Ludacris.

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Thu Mar 20, 2014 2:43 am
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Post Re: What are we to make of Frozen?
I like pop music so I found the song appealing enough.

I personally always felt like grunge music was made by robots, you just shove a disc in them titled "generic angsty lyrics" and voila, you have Nirvana!


Thu Mar 20, 2014 2:49 am
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Post Re: What are we to make of Frozen?
The formula applies to much of what dominates the popular airwaves.

You start with two words: "I wish" and then plug in one of the following concepts

I wish
+ "I had human legs instead of this fish tail" = Disney song
+ "America didn't crush the hopes of this working class guy named Joe" = Bruce Springsteen single
+ "I were dead" = Smashing Pumpkins, etc.
+ "our first two weeks of flirting would be representative of our entire 3 month relationship" = 75% of pop
+ "I didn't have a terminal disease and also wasn't being evicted" = the hit song from the hit musical that constitutes 100% of the theater your sister is going to see this year and, despite this, will be the one play she "can't believe" you haven't seen.

And so forth.

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Thu Mar 20, 2014 3:02 am
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Post Re: What are we to make of Frozen?
Mark III wrote:
The formula applies to much of what dominates the popular
+ "I didn't have a terminal disease and also wasn't being evicted" = the hit song from the hit musical that constitutes 100% of the theater your sister is going to see this year and, despite this, will be the one play she "can't believe" you haven't seen.


[Clearing throat] hmm hmm hmm...
[Sings]

Everyone has AIDS! AIDS AIDS AIDS AIDS!
Everyone has AAAAAIIIIDS!

Thank you Matt and Trey, for a great throwaway parody in Team America: World Police. (And I love Rent, not the film so much which was merely OK.)

Feel free to resume OT conversation. Can't add much else because I haven't seen Frozen.


Thu Mar 20, 2014 4:23 am
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Post Re: What are we to make of Frozen?
Mark III wrote:
The formula applies to much of what dominates the popular airwaves.

You start with two words: "I wish" and then plug in one of the following concepts

I wish
+ "I had human legs instead of this fish tail" = Disney song
+ "America didn't crush the hopes of this working class guy named Joe" = Bruce Springsteen single
+ "I were dead" = Smashing Pumpkins, etc.
+ "our first two weeks of flirting would be representative of our entire 3 month relationship" = 75% of pop
+ "I didn't have a terminal disease and also wasn't being evicted" = the hit song from the hit musical that constitutes 100% of the theater your sister is going to see this year and, despite this, will be the one play she "can't believe" you haven't seen.

And so forth.


Have you considered a career in music?

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Thu Mar 20, 2014 4:32 am
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Post Re: What are we to make of Frozen?
AJR wrote:
Hahaaaaaaaaaaaaaa

That's our Cook! *audience laughter*


Problem is, he's right on this.

I'm typically a guy who defends the Disney machine, as it usually makes some effort to produce films that not only appeal to kids, but give the ticket-paying adults something to work with.

But the Frozen experience left me feeling like a huge, invisible hand was reaching into my pocket throughout the whole film. A kind of distraction theft.

I'm pretty convinced this film is the product of a Disney random plot generator, whilst their former screenwriters now languish on welfare and are forced to dance naked in front of businessmen for food.

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Thu Mar 20, 2014 4:37 am
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Post Re: What are we to make of Frozen?
Blonde Almond wrote:
I've been a big defender of Frozen here since I first saw it last December. Here is what I wrote about it then, all of which I still stand by:

Quote:
When did mainstream animation become so disposable? It’s a question I couldn’t help asking myself when I was sitting through the previews in front of Disney’s latest animated effort. One by one the previews went by, each advertising a similar-looking product, filled with wisecracking anthropomorphic creatures, cheap lowbrow gags, and voiceover work from “celebrities” chosen for their name recognition rather than their talent. After awhile it started to get incredibly distressing: is all this really what passes for acceptable family entertainment these days? Things started to look up with a new Mickey Mouse short film (awkwardly titled Get A Horse!), which cleverly blends retro and modern cartoon techniques together in genuinely inventive ways. And then the main feature began, and all my fears were brushed to the side, if only for a short while. From beginning to end, Frozen is the kind of family film you see so rarely nowadays, one filled with beautiful animation, lively and engaging characters, a strong crop of musical numbers (only one of which I felt was redundant and tedious to get through), and an incredibly winning spirit. You can bemoan Disney for perhaps relying too much on their usual formula, but I think there’s something to be said for a formula that has proven itself to be timeless.

Still, it’s not like Frozen strictly binds itself to that time-worn formula anyway. In fact, the film strikes down one of the oldest tropes in the book, true love at first sight, and it finds ways to subvert tradition in other areas too. This is the film Brave could have been had it bothered with providing a compelling narrative to go along with its compelling heroine. It’s true, Frozen doesn’t completely eliminate the romance element like that flawed Pixar film, but it’s nowhere near the dominating element that drives the central characters. That would be the complicated relationship between two sisters. When was the last time that was the primary focus in an animated film? With Pixar still mired in what is now a fairly prolonged slump, it’s great to see Disney pick up the slack and show how popular animation can still be more than just assembly-line amalgamations of whatever is “hip” with the kids nowadays. Nobody is going to remember those kinds of films in future decades. Frozen, just like the other recent Disney efforts The Princess And The Frog and Tangled before it, is made to last. 9/10.


I'm not usually the type who points to box office figures as a measure of a film's worth, but in the case of Frozen, I think its enormous worldwide success speaks to the universal appeal of the material. I love that it's done so well. Plus, it's a more daring film than most people, including many here on this forum, have given it credit for. I wouldn't go so far as to call it radical, but it doesn't just settle for the expected.


But my or question is that even you, in your review of the film, essentially said it was "just like" The Princess and the Frog and Tangled, and yet it's done far better business than both of those combined. So what's the difference?

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Thu Mar 20, 2014 6:27 am
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Post Re: What are we to make of Frozen?
As someone who has seen Tangled perhaps 20 times, I don't think Frozen matches it in any regard other than aesthetics.

Tangled is a bit of a mess (which I sometimes think is knowingly hinted at in the title itself), but in its chaos there is genuine excitement, charm and chemistry between the lead characters. It perhaps also helps that its built on the foundations of a recognised story, enabling it to bypass the need for an explanatory narrative, whilst still keeping it just-about coherent enough.

And this is exactly where Frozen fails. Tangled on ice, but without a real foundation or any real chemistry for that matter. Perhaps I'm a simple-minded kind of chap, but I can't really recall what Frozen is about other than a protracted sibling remoteness that manifests itself quite literally as ice. The visuals are striking, no doubt, but we're talking a story that would hardly be able to fill a 20 minute Tinkerbell feature here.

Right. Ok. I'm not the target audience. But I am the guy who funds the target audience. If Frozen is the future, then we are in for a hard slog. As I will be when it's released on DVD here in 2 weeks. Copy, unfortunately, already reserved.

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Thu Mar 20, 2014 8:22 am
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Post Re: What are we to make of Frozen?
JamesKunz wrote:
But my or question is that even you, in your review of the film, essentially said it was "just like" The Princess and the Frog and Tangled, and yet it's done far better business than both of those combined. So what's the difference?


Competition? The year Tangled came out Toy Story 3 had dominated the summer months before (and was released on DVD the week before Tangled opened). In the theaters you had Harry Potter and the Deathly Hollows (Part 1) and other animated fare such as Megamind ($148m for it's run).

Here was Box Office Mojo's preview analysis of Frozen prior to its opening last november:
Quote:
In a number of ways, Frozen closely resembles Tangled: both are "princess" stories with musical elements, and both opened on the Wednesday before Thanksgiving. They're also both loosely based on classic fairy tales, though the Brothers Grimm's "Rapunzel" is more well-known than Hans Christian Anderson's "The Snow Queen."

Disney has aggressively marketed Frozen, though it's unclear how effective the material has been. Instead of focusing on the story—or highlighting the fact that it's a musical—the marketing has mainly emphasized the movie's humor, most of which comes from the snowman Olaf (voiced by Josh Gad). While it's true that funny animated movies fare better than serious ones, there needs to be some semblance of a story as well, and that's not really being shown here. During the final stretch of the campaign, Disney has also been emphasizing the quality of the movie—a popular pull quote suggests that it's Disney's best animated movie since The Lion King.

This is the fourth major Disney family movie to open over Thanksgiving weekend in recent memory. The Muppets, Enchanted and Tangled all had five-day starts north of $40 million, and the same will be true for Frozen. Still, with tough competition from Catching Fire and a marketing campaign that's been hit-or-miss, it's tough to imagine it matching Tangled's $68.7 million.


Frozen pulled $93M in it's 5-Day Thanksgiving run and it's only real animated competition was the 3-week old Free Birds. And I think it remained largely competition-free until The Lego Movie opened.

You could also maybe factor in macro factors (like a better economy and lower unemployment), but I'm not going to write a thesis here.


Last edited by Johnny Larue on Thu Mar 20, 2014 3:34 pm, edited 2 times in total.



Thu Mar 20, 2014 9:43 am
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Post Re: What are we to make of Frozen?
Johnny Larue wrote:
JamesKunz wrote:
But my or question is that even you, in your review of the film, essentially said it was "just like" The Princess and the Frog and Tangled, and yet it's done far better business than both of those combined. So what's the difference?


Competition? The year Tangled came out Toy Story 3 had dominated the summer months before (and was released on DVD the week before Tangled opened). In the theaters you had Harray Potte and the Deathly Hollows (Part 2) and other animated fare such as Megamind ($148m for it's run).

Here was Box Office Mojo's preview analysis of Frozen prior to its opening last november:
Quote:
In a number of ways, Frozen closely resembles Tangled: both are "princess" stories with musical elements, and both opened on the Wednesday before Thanksgiving. They're also both loosely based on classic fairy tales, though the Brothers Grimm's "Rapunzel" is more well-known than Hans Christian Anderson's "The Snow Queen."

Disney has aggressively marketed Frozen, though it's unclear how effective the material has been. Instead of focusing on the story—or highlighting the fact that it's a musical—the marketing has mainly emphasized the movie's humor, most of which comes from the snowman Olaf (voiced by Josh Gad). While it's true that funny animated movies fare better than serious ones, there needs to be some semblance of a story as well, and that's not really being shown here. During the final stretch of the campaign, Disney has also been emphasizing the quality of the movie—a popular pull quote suggests that it's Disney's best animated movie since The Lion King.

This is the fourth major Disney family movie to open over Thanksgiving weekend in recent memory. The Muppets, Enchanted and Tangled all had five-day starts north of $40 million, and the same will be true for Frozen. Still, with tough competition from Catching Fire and a marketing campaign that's been hit-or-miss, it's tough to imagine it matching Tangled's $68.7 million.


Frozen pulled $93M in it's 5-Day Thanksgiving run and it's only real animated competition was the 3-week old Free Birds. And I think it remained largely competition-free until The Lego Movie opened.

You could also maybe factor in macro factors (like a better economy and lower unemployment), but I'm not going to write a thesis here.


Good analysis Johnny

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Thu Mar 20, 2014 9:59 am
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Post Re: What are we to make of Frozen?
JamesKunz wrote:
Johnny Larue wrote:
JamesKunz wrote:
But my or question is that even you, in your review of the film, essentially said it was "just like" The Princess and the Frog and Tangled, and yet it's done far better business than both of those combined. So what's the difference?


Competition? The year Tangled came out Toy Story 3 had dominated the summer months before (and was released on DVD the week before Tangled opened). In the theaters you had Harray Potte and the Deathly Hollows (Part 2) and other animated fare such as Megamind ($148m for it's run).

Here was Box Office Mojo's preview analysis of Frozen prior to its opening last november:
Quote:
In a number of ways, Frozen closely resembles Tangled: both are "princess" stories with musical elements, and both opened on the Wednesday before Thanksgiving. They're also both loosely based on classic fairy tales, though the Brothers Grimm's "Rapunzel" is more well-known than Hans Christian Anderson's "The Snow Queen."

Disney has aggressively marketed Frozen, though it's unclear how effective the material has been. Instead of focusing on the story—or highlighting the fact that it's a musical—the marketing has mainly emphasized the movie's humor, most of which comes from the snowman Olaf (voiced by Josh Gad). While it's true that funny animated movies fare better than serious ones, there needs to be some semblance of a story as well, and that's not really being shown here. During the final stretch of the campaign, Disney has also been emphasizing the quality of the movie—a popular pull quote suggests that it's Disney's best animated movie since The Lion King.

This is the fourth major Disney family movie to open over Thanksgiving weekend in recent memory. The Muppets, Enchanted and Tangled all had five-day starts north of $40 million, and the same will be true for Frozen. Still, with tough competition from Catching Fire and a marketing campaign that's been hit-or-miss, it's tough to imagine it matching Tangled's $68.7 million.


Frozen pulled $93M in it's 5-Day Thanksgiving run and it's only real animated competition was the 3-week old Free Birds. And I think it remained largely competition-free until The Lego Movie opened.

You could also maybe factor in macro factors (like a better economy and lower unemployment), but I'm not going to write a thesis here.


Good analysis Johnny


There are a lot of things that aligned for this one. For people in my area it was the harshest winter we've had (tied a 1903-04 record for cold) and people wanted to go DO something, anything.

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Thu Mar 20, 2014 10:39 am
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Post Re: What are we to make of Frozen?
ilovemovies wrote:
I can't comment on the movie itself because I haven't seen it yet, but I will say that the song Let It Go is egregiously overrated and should not have won the Oscar.


I have to disagree. I couldn't even remember the song that was nominated for Her or Despicable Me 2, and I had seen Her right after the nominations came out. Not saying they were bad songs, but none of them stuck with me like "Let it Go". I haven't seen Mandela: Long Walk To Freedom, but I listened to the song on youtube and while I like U2 my reaction to the song was just "meh". It won the Golden Globe though.

I guess I really liked "Let it Go" because a couple of weeks before I saw the movie I had come out to my friends (the ones who I saw Frozen with) and a couple of my family members (everyone accepted me and supported me :)), so the song really touched me. Not saying the song was about THAT, but about being yourself etc. It's a versatile song that people can relate to in some way. Also, as I've seen other people point out in other places, this is the first humongous Disney Princess song in quite some time (The last one being "Reflection" from Mulan).


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Post Re: What are we to make of Frozen?
JamesKunz wrote:
But my or question is that even you, in your review of the film, essentially said it was "just like" The Princess and the Frog and Tangled, and yet it's done far better business than both of those combined. So what's the difference?


Yeah, sorry, I was still trying to figure that one out myself. It's tough to say exactly why one film catches lightning in a bottle while another doesn't, but with Frozen I think you can point to a number of factors that really helped its cause. Johnny Larue's analysis is great and makes a lot of sense, so I think that's part of it. And like Shade said earlier, the song is another big reason, although I don't think it's the biggest reason. Though maybe that's why Tangled didn't quite reach the same level of success; as you've already said, it doesn't have that one showstopping number. But just under 600 million is still nothing to scoff at.

Maybe this sounds a little naive, but I think it mainly comes down to the film's more classical style of storytelling. It's not a film loaded up with cultural-specific references, and so it's been able to play to families all over the world and not lose anything in translation. I think The Princess And The Frog has a similar old-school feel, but it's New Orleans setting made it perhaps a little more American-geared than Frozen and Tangled.

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Thu Mar 20, 2014 8:48 pm
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Post Re: What are we to make of Frozen?
From a character and story standpoint, I'm not sure Frozen is much different from other recent princess movies. What actually sets it apart for me and builds the story is the actual framing and scenery settings. It sounds strange for an animated movie, but this one has bigger feel - a sense of grandeur. Let it Go is a fine song, but even more powerful set with the positive creation of the beautiful ice castle. Despite the adverse circumstances, the settings are mostly befitting of the environment a princess belongs in.


Fri Mar 21, 2014 2:24 pm
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Post Re: What are we to make of Frozen?
Convictions wrote:
ilovemovies wrote:
I can't comment on the movie itself because I haven't seen it yet, but I will say that the song Let It Go is egregiously overrated and should not have won the Oscar.


I have to disagree. I couldn't even remember the song that was nominated for Her or Despicable Me 2, and I had seen Her right after the nominations came out. Not saying they were bad songs, but none of them stuck with me like "Let it Go". I haven't seen Mandela: Long Walk To Freedom, but I listened to the song on youtube and while I like U2 my reaction to the song was just "meh". It won the Golden Globe though.

I guess I really liked "Let it Go" because a couple of weeks before I saw the movie I had come out to my friends (the ones who I saw Frozen with) and a couple of my family members (everyone accepted me and supported me :)), so the song really touched me. Not saying the song was about THAT, but about being yourself etc. It's a versatile song that people can relate to in some way. Also, as I've seen other people point out in other places, this is the first humongous Disney Princess song in quite some time (The last one being "Reflection" from Mulan).


The Moon Song from Her is an absolutely gorgeous, beautiful song and should have won IMO.

Let it Go is okay, and would probably rank in second place because it's a weak field this year. But, in comparison to The Moon Song, Let it Go simply pales IMO. But hey, I understand that you have a personal connection to the song that I obviously do not.


Sat Mar 22, 2014 5:23 pm
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Post Re: What are we to make of Frozen?
CasualDad wrote:
From a character and story standpoint, I'm not sure Frozen is much different from other recent princess movies. What actually sets it apart for me and builds the story is the actual framing and scenery settings. It sounds strange for an animated movie, but this one has bigger feel - a sense of grandeur. Let it Go is a fine song, but even more powerful set with the positive creation of the beautiful ice castle. Despite the adverse circumstances, the settings are mostly befitting of the environment a princess belongs in.


That's it. I like the song and it perfectly fits the scene, which I thought was the best in the movie.

I like Frozen, too, though I thought The Wind Rises and The Croods were better films. (As is Tangled.) The siblings' love for each other resonates for a lot of families.

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Post Re: What are we to make of Frozen?
Well, I just now, because of this discussion, went to YouTube and heard/watched "Let it Go" for the first time. This is the song that won the Oscar? Disposable pop fluff. Not even very memorable.

"The Moon Song" from Her, however, was beautiful and poignant.


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Post Re: What are we to make of Frozen?
MunichMan wrote:
Well, I just now, because of this discussion, went to YouTube and heard/watched "Let it Go" for the first time. This is the song that won the Oscar? Disposable pop fluff. Not even very memorable.

"The Moon Song" from Her, however, was beautiful and poignant.


Not very memorable? Tell that to the evil beast inside my head that makes me remember fragments of lyrics every other minute

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