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Punching above your weight 
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Post Re: Punching above your weight
NotHughGrant wrote:
How the fuck did Del Toro direct Pan's Labrynth?

It's completely out of character. Like Rahman knocking out Lennox Lewis, i guess this shit happens


If ever you make it to America Lee, I reckon James' K will be waiting at the airport you arrive in to suck you off for starting a thread like this. He must've written about this film over 100 times on this forum.

Pan's Labyrinth is great. It wouldn't be in my top 100 list but it's a four star film no doubt. The scene where Vidal sows his mouth back together annoys me a little, but that maybe nitpicking. Everything else has the rare ability to change genres seemlessly, it's a great watch. The Director is still relatively young and has at least twenty years of film making ahead of him? Perhaps he can rekindle the magic shown in PL but I doubt so. It really does feel like a one hit wonder, like a tennis player winning one grand slam yet coming close in a few others, or some shit like that. I can imagine Peter Korda and Del Toro dancing in the moonlight together which is really nice.

Tom DiCilio springs to mind too. Living in Oblivion is an absolute classic comedy in my opinion, nothing he's done compares http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0001139/?ref_=nv_sr_1 and yes, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t77DexLMjOU. As Fred Willard would say, "What Happened?"

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Sun Feb 23, 2014 1:19 pm
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Post Re: Punching above your weight
wisey wrote:
NotHughGrant wrote:
How the fuck did Del Toro direct Pan's Labrynth?

It's completely out of character. Like Rahman knocking out Lennox Lewis, i guess this shit happens


If ever you make it to America Lee, I reckon James' K will be waiting at the airport you arrive in to suck you off for starting a thread like this.
"


*can't respond. Plane to London currently boarding*

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Sun Feb 23, 2014 1:49 pm
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Post Re: Punching above your weight
I'm not sure if people here are considering it but The Devil's Backbone came very close to Pan's Labyrinth in terms of overall quality. Many themes/ideas/plot points as I recall were lifted directly from the earlier film. I might go so far as to argue that The Devil's Backbone is superior overall, except I actually do personally like Pan's Labyrinth a little bit more.

To be honest I thought David Fincher would follow a similar pattern with his career. I'm sure I've mentioned it here before, but Fight Club is my personal favorite film, but nothing else of he made even suggested that he was capable of the heights that film obtained. The premise of The Game and Panic Room simply don't interest me, and while I recently saw Seven and thought it was very good, it didn't come close. Zodiac was also well made but amounted to little more than a well made, based on a true story thriller. Fortunately, starting with The Curious Case of Benjamin Button, his output has improved considerably when he followed it up with The Social Network and The Girl With the Dragon Tattoo. None of these I think are better or equal to Fight Club but they all have elements that allow them to come close.
-Jeremy

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Sun Feb 23, 2014 11:11 pm
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Post Re: Punching above your weight
thered47 wrote:
I'm not sure if people here are considering it but The Devil's Backbone came very close to Pan's Labyrinth in terms of overall quality. Many themes/ideas/plot points as I recall were lifted directly from the earlier film.


Disagree. For one, Devil's Backbone just isn't as good. And as for themes/ideas/plot points being lifted...yeah, they're about the Spanish Civil War, but thematically they're very different. The Devil's Backbone is a straightforward allegory. The left is (literally) impotent and crippled, attracted to the sexy right, there's a (literal) unexploded bomb in the courtyard, etc. Pan's Labyrinth is much more oblique, focusing more on the nature of choice and sacrifice and less on literal connections to the war.

Furthermore, stylistically they're very different as well. The Devil's Backbone uses a ghost story as its template, while Pan's Labyrinth uses fairy tales. The color palettes are very different, as well as the genres -- Devil's Backbone is a horror, while Pan's Labyrinth is a fantasy.

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Mon Feb 24, 2014 12:02 am
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Post Re: Punching above your weight
thered47 wrote:
I'm not sure if people here are considering it but The Devil's Backbone came very close to Pan's Labyrinth in terms of overall quality. Many themes/ideas/plot points as I recall were lifted directly from the earlier film. I might go so far as to argue that The Devil's Backbone is superior overall, except I actually do personally like Pan's Labyrinth a little bit more.


I'm glad you mentioned the Devil's Backbone, because off the top of my head I can't think of a film that is more blatantly a dress rehearsal for another one.

But, I strongly disagree. Of course, some of the themes and plot details are strikingly similar, but they are worlds apart in terms of quality. Pan is simply on a different scale.


Quote:
To be honest I thought David Fincher would follow a similar pattern with his career. I'm sure I've mentioned it here before, but Fight Club is my personal favorite film, but nothing else of he made even suggested that he was capable of the heights that film obtained. The premise of The Game and Panic Room simply don't interest me, and while I recently saw Seven and thought it was very good, it didn't come close. Zodiac was also well made but amounted to little more than a well made, based on a true story thriller. Fortunately, starting with The Curious Case of Benjamin Button, his output has improved considerably when he followed it up with The Social Network and The Girl With the Dragon Tattoo. None of these I think are better or equal to Fight Club but they all have elements that allow them to come close.
-Jeremy


I broadly agree with this. Fight Club represents and early peak in his career. It's been mostly downhill since. Remaking Dragon Tattoo betrayed a shocking deficit in imagination and ambition.

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Mon Feb 24, 2014 5:36 am
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Post Re: Punching above your weight
JamesKunz wrote:
wisey wrote:
NotHughGrant wrote:
How the fuck did Del Toro direct Pan's Labrynth?

It's completely out of character. Like Rahman knocking out Lennox Lewis, i guess this shit happens


If ever you make it to America Lee, I reckon James' K will be waiting at the airport you arrive in to suck you off for starting a thread like this.
"


*can't respond. Plane to London currently boarding*


Manchester, man! Manchester!

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Mon Feb 24, 2014 5:37 am
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Post Re: Punching above your weight
I actually find Dragon Tattoo to be Fincher's best film.


Mon Feb 24, 2014 5:48 am
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Post Re: Punching above your weight
Vexer wrote:
I actually find Dragon Tattoo to be Fincher's best film.


It's only just about the best version of that film.

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Mon Feb 24, 2014 5:53 am
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Post Re: Punching above your weight
NotHughGrant wrote:
Manchester, man! Manchester!

Come on, man, it doesn't matter where he lands on an island that's, like, 15 kilometers across. Quick jaunt on the motorway.

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Mon Feb 24, 2014 5:58 am
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Post Re: Punching above your weight
Ken wrote:
NotHughGrant wrote:
Manchester, man! Manchester!

Come on, man, it doesn't matter where he lands on an island that's, like, 15 kilometers across. Quick jaunt on the motorway.


Well yeah. But London is practically a foreign country to me. It's easier to get to the centre of Amsterdam than London from here.

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Mon Feb 24, 2014 6:17 am
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Post Re: Punching above your weight
NotHughGrant wrote:
Ken wrote:
NotHughGrant wrote:
Manchester, man! Manchester!

Come on, man, it doesn't matter where he lands on an island that's, like, 15 kilometers across. Quick jaunt on the motorway.


Well yeah. But London is practically a foreign country to me. It's easier to get to the centre of Amsterdam than London from here.


I'm sorry! Manchester!

In other news, I just figured out a perfect second example in addition to Pan's Labyrinth:


L.A. Confidential
, directed by...Curtis Hanson?

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Mon Feb 24, 2014 11:09 am
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Post Re: Punching above your weight
JamesKunz wrote:

L.A. Confidential
, directed by...Curtis Hanson?


Curtis Hanson is actually a very versatile director who has directed many different kinds of movies. From the Hand that Rocks Cradle (not a great movie, but an okay one) to The River Wild to L.A. Confidential to Wonder Boys to 8 Mile. So I really don't see how he fits.


Mon Feb 24, 2014 11:23 am
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Post Re: Punching above your weight
I'm thinking John Singleton's one story to tell was Boyz n the Hood. Not one of his follow-ups (that I've seen) came close to the heights of his debut.

I'm sure sexey vexey will disagree with me. Go with it vex.

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Mon Feb 24, 2014 3:19 pm
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Post Re: Punching above your weight
ram1312 wrote:
I'm thinking John Singleton's one story to tell was Boyz n the Hood. Not one of his follow-ups (that I've seen) came close to the heights of his debut.

I'm sure sexey vexey will disagree with me. Go with it vex.

Boyz was his best film, but I think most of his follow-ups were pretty good in their own way.


Mon Feb 24, 2014 3:24 pm
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Post Re: Punching above your weight
ilovemovies wrote:
JamesKunz wrote:

L.A. Confidential
, directed by...Curtis Hanson?


Curtis Hanson is actually a very versatile director who has directed many different kinds of movies. From the Hand that Rocks Cradle (not a great movie, but an okay one) to The River Wild to L.A. Confidential to Wonder Boys to 8 Mile. So I really don't see how he fits.


I haven't seen 8 Mile yet for some unknown reason, but I think Hanson is an apt comparison. Wonder Boys (which has its backers that think it's excellent I know) and The River Wild are about on the same level quality-wise for me as the two Hellboy movies and The Devil's Backbone (which isn't an insult to Hanson's films BTW). Similarly Pacific Rim = The Hand That Rocks the Cradle and Blade II = In Her Shoes. I grant your versatility point, though del Toro only lacks versatility in that his films are all genre films in some sense, but their approaches and/or "subgenres of genre" if you will are different.


Mon Feb 24, 2014 4:59 pm
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Post Re: Punching above your weight
ilovemovies wrote:
JamesKunz wrote:

L.A. Confidential
, directed by...Curtis Hanson?


Curtis Hanson is actually a very versatile director who has directed many different kinds of movies. From the Hand that Rocks Cradle (not a great movie, but an okay one) to The River Wild to L.A. Confidential to Wonder Boys to 8 Mile. So I really don't see how he fits.


Because this thread is for directors who "punch above their weight," and The Hand that Rocks the Cradle and the River Wild are decent genre films, Wonder Boys is a *** drama, and L.A. Confidential is a fucking masterpiece. So I really don't see how this *doesn't* fit.

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Mon Feb 24, 2014 6:52 pm
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Post Re: Punching above your weight
JamesKunz wrote:
ilovemovies wrote:
JamesKunz wrote:

L.A. Confidential
, directed by...Curtis Hanson?


Curtis Hanson is actually a very versatile director who has directed many different kinds of movies. From the Hand that Rocks Cradle (not a great movie, but an okay one) to The River Wild to L.A. Confidential to Wonder Boys to 8 Mile. So I really don't see how he fits.


Because this thread is for directors who "punch above their weight," and The Hand that Rocks the Cradle and the River Wild are decent genre films, Wonder Boys is a *** drama, and L.A. Confidential is a fucking masterpiece. So I really don't see how this *doesn't* fit.


I think the key is to separate how you (you being ilovemovies or anyone else who really enjoys Hanson) view Hanson and how he's viewed in a more general, less individual sense. He has a reputation as a competent, workmanlike director, and most of his movies fit that description. Yet, L.A. Confidential is generally viewed as a modern classic/masterpiece/other term for excellent film. It's a great example for this thread. An even better one than Del Toro, I'd say.

None of that means you're wrong for liking his work, or that you shouldn't or any of that other stuff I don't think anyone would even insinuate. Just that that point of view isn't how Hanson is widely regarded.


Mon Feb 24, 2014 7:01 pm
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Post Re: Punching above your weight
Well I thought L.A. Confidential was pretty poor, managing to be both convoluted and predictable at the same time. Cheesy acting, poorly shot action scenes (the final standoff is amazingly pedestrian), many scenes just feel very over the top without being particularly interesting. Plus the production design is messy and never really convincing.


Mon Feb 24, 2014 10:25 pm
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Post Re: Punching above your weight
MGamesCook wrote:
Well I thought L.A. Confidential was pretty poor, managing to be both convoluted and predictable at the same time. Cheesy acting, poorly shot action scenes (the final standoff is amazingly pedestrian), many scenes just feel very over the top without being particularly interesting. Plus the production design is messy and never really convincing.


*Sighs*. You're the only person I've ever met who hasn't liked the shootout or the production design. At what point do you get tired of playing the iconoclast?

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Mon Feb 24, 2014 10:54 pm
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Post Re: Punching above your weight
JamesKunz wrote:
MGamesCook wrote:
Well I thought L.A. Confidential was pretty poor, managing to be both convoluted and predictable at the same time. Cheesy acting, poorly shot action scenes (the final standoff is amazingly pedestrian), many scenes just feel very over the top without being particularly interesting. Plus the production design is messy and never really convincing.


*Sighs*. You're the only person I've ever met who hasn't liked the shootout or the production design. At what point do you get tired of playing the iconoclast?


Well technically you haven't met me, so your record's still clean. At what point do you learn that a person isn't an iconoclast simply because he disagrees with you? I'm trying to think about how many hundreds of action scenes I've seen in movies. Technically speaking, hundreds and hundreds. The Confidential shootout wouldn't make the top 150. It's Crowe and Pearce crouched in a dark crawl space shot almost entirely in extreme close-ups. Yawn.


Mon Feb 24, 2014 11:01 pm
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