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Last Movie You Watched 
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Post Re: Last Movie You Watched
That's a good point. Usually, when people use the term "dated", there's a negative connotation, but really, everything's dated whether for good or ill. Bond's grey three piece suit? Dated. And fucking awesome. The Aston Martin DB-5? Dated, fucking awesome, and better than modern sports cars that aren't considered dated. The decor in M's office? Dated, but does that mean that it's worse than today's glass/steel boxes that pass for modern offices? I daresay not.

I was thinking about this a while back when J-Kizzle was reviewing Superman--a mid-70s production. The costumers dressed Clark Kent in a late 1950s/early 1960s suit in an effort to make him look outmoded and out of touch with the then-current fashions. They figured he would look like a dork, and, by 1970s standards, I suppose he did. Everybody else was wearing contemporary 1970s clothes--colorful, loud, big and frilly. They were in style. They must have pitied Clark, the poor rube.

Looking back now, those hip 1970s clothes look terrible, and Clark's wardrobe looks vintage and classy. Hindsight has demonstrated that his late 1950s/early 1960s style was designed to age well, and all that funky 1970s stuff is now sitting in the back of the closet where all great fashion shames end up.

Every piece of clothing in the movie is dated, but, shall we say, they're dated in very different ways.

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Sun Dec 29, 2013 2:23 pm
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Post Re: Last Movie You Watched
Ken wrote:
Vexer wrote:
I don't care if it's "realistic" or not, it dates the film very badly.

It doesn't. A movie being honest about how something works in its time and place is not wrong for doing so. In addition to many other things, a movie is a snapshot of the time in which it was made, both socially and in the filmmaking traditions. Perhaps if Dr. No was trying to depict some other time period and still kept the social norms of 1962, it could be faulted for not seeing past 1962's view of the world, but it didn't do that. If Dr. No had been made today and were set in 1962, it would be absolutely right for capturing the race and gender relations and politics of the period.

If you're that worried about race and gender in the movies, perhaps your energy is better spent thinking about how the film industry's use of female and nonwhite talent today hasn't reflected the progress we've made since 1962. It ought to bother the hell out of you that nearly every field in the business is as dominated by white men as it's ever been. 1962 being 1962 is fine. 2013 still pretty much being 1962 is not.
Actually things have gotten considerably better for women in films since then, though I agree that some stereotypes do persist, I think we have come a long way from how women were portrayed back then.

I just personally find the older Bond films akward to watch for many reasons, the series thankfully got much better at coming up with roles for women.

I can deal with outdated fashions and whatnot, but outdated attitudes towards minorities and women are a big turn off for me, dosen't matter how "accurate" they are, i'm still well within my rights to not feel comfortable watching films showing that kind of stuff(don't even get me started on Mickey Rooney's character in Breakfast At Tiffany's).


Sun Dec 29, 2013 2:30 pm
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Post Re: Last Movie You Watched
Vexer wrote:
Actually things have gotten considerably better for women in films since then, though I agree that some stereotypes do persist, I think we have come a long way from how women were portrayed back then.

Are you sure? And does whatever progress we've made in terms of portrayals make up for the fact that women are still relatively shut out of the industry, both in front of and behind the camera? What about the fact that probably all of us here will have to strain really hard if we're asked to think of the most recent film we saw that passed the Bechdel test?

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Sun Dec 29, 2013 2:36 pm
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Post Re: Last Movie You Watched
Ken wrote:
Vexer wrote:
Actually things have gotten considerably better for women in films since then, though I agree that some stereotypes do persist, I think we have come a long way from how women were portrayed back then.

Are you sure? And does whatever progress we've made in terms of portrayals make up for the fact that women are still relatively shut out of the industry, both in front of and behind the camera? What about the fact that probably all of us here will have to strain really hard if we're asked to think of the most recent film we saw that passed the Bechdel test?

Yeah i'm sure, and now I don't have strain really hard to think of films that pass the Bechdel test.


Sun Dec 29, 2013 2:39 pm
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Post Re: Last Movie You Watched
10 films from the last three years. You have one minute. Google is cheating. Go.

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Sun Dec 29, 2013 2:40 pm
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Post Re: Last Movie You Watched
Ken wrote:
10 films from the last three years. You have one minute. Google is cheating. Go.


The Heat
We're The Millers
For A Good Time Call
Spring Breakers
Bachelorette
Gravity
Identity Thief
Sucker Punch
Bridesmaids
Bad Teacher


Sun Dec 29, 2013 2:52 pm
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Post Re: Last Movie You Watched
...You may want to brush up on the parameters of the test.

EDIT:

Specifically, the part that leaps out within seconds is that several of those movies only have one prominent female character.

EDIT AGAIN:

But I feel like this is all getting beside the point. You cannot claim offense to a depiction of the way things were 50 years ago in a movie that was made 50 years ago without at least acknowledging that things are nearly as bad now. Worse, actually, if we consider the relative progress in other realms of society, and how segregated the film industry remains. You can expect a heavily white male dominated industry in the 1960s. It was acceptable back then. Why is it so similar now, in an age when it's theoretically unacceptable?

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Sun Dec 29, 2013 2:53 pm
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Post Re: Last Movie You Watched
Ken wrote:
...You may want to brush up on the parameters of the test.

EDIT:

Specifically, the part that leaps out within seconds is that several of those movies only have one prominent female character.

Most of my examples are still legit though, here's some more:

Bitch Slap
The Runaways
Chloe
Easy A
You Again
For Colored Girls
Burlesque
Black Swan

EDIt: No things are not "nearly as bad" now as they were in the 1960s, and to say so is being incredibly dishonest :roll: We've made many strides since then, so while I can "accept" white-dominated films being popular back then, it dosen't mean I HAVE to like them either. Roles for black people have considerably gone up now with the rise of directors like Tyler Perry(yes his films do divide the community, but the fact remains that they are popular regardless).

Botom line is you can't tell me how i'm "supposed" to feel about certain films, I just feel the way I feel and that's that.


Sun Dec 29, 2013 3:03 pm
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Post Re: Last Movie You Watched
Here's why they're nearly as bad: perhaps things have gotten better, but over 50 years have passed, and they should have gotten much better than they have. In the relative sense, they've gotten worse, because progress in Hollywood has lagged further and further behind the passage of time and the progress we've made in other ways. Tell me which part of this you think is dishonest so I can more accurately explain why it's not.

Did you know the cartoon Young Justice (product of Warner Bros.), which was popular with both male and female viewers, was canceled specifically because the executives wanted to produce new cartoons that catered to a more male-dominated audience? Did you know that films and television shows are much more likely to be greenlit if they're restricted to just one black character in the cast? (Anything with two black characters is probably a "black project". Anything with three or more black characters is definitely a "black project".) How many big-budget movies this year were directed by women or black people? Or written by them? Compare with the number directed or written by white men.

Recall, for the sake of perspective, that this is 2013. Very nearly 2014. We do not have the allowance of being in the pre-Civil Rights, pre-second-wave feminism era. We are enlightened now, or so we flatter ourselves by imagining that we are. This is why it's worse now--because we have absolutely no excuse for the way things are.

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Sun Dec 29, 2013 3:20 pm
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Post Re: Last Movie You Watched
Vexer wrote:
Roles for black people have considerably gone up now with the rise of directors like Tyler Perry(yes his films do divide the community, but the fact remains that they are popular regardless).


You're undoing your own argument. One specific black director who makes "black films" doesn't say a thing about the state of the industry -- or perhaps it does, but what it says is that we have a long way to go and as Kenneth said, progress has not kept up with society and has in many way fallen behind.

The Bechdel test is a worthy one. Here's another: what leading characters just happen to be black? It's an insanely small number, and the majority of those character are played by Denzel or Will Smith -- and no, I'm not being sarcastic. It's the same with women -- the leading roles aren't proportionate, and the meatiest roles (when they appear) are about being a woman. Think about it: the last few years (and especially this one) have been packed with candidates for Best Actor, while struggling to fill out a list of five for Best Actress. The industry, in every area, is still vastly dominated by white men -- the vast majority of whom, I'm sure, are decent and non-bigoted dudes, but facts are facts.


Sun Dec 29, 2013 3:56 pm
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Post Re: Last Movie You Watched
Ken and Shade make good points. As a further example, consider this: For decades the only truly prominent, provocative black director was Spike Lee. Only in the past five years have we seen breakouts by Lee Daniels and Steve McQueen. There are no black executives in the studios, and very few blacks who make creative decisions. Hollywood can do better.

I will concede one thing. Since 2000, there have been 22 nominations for black actors, more than all previous years combined.

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Sun Dec 29, 2013 5:46 pm
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Post Re: Last Movie You Watched
The Hand that Rocks the Cradle Didn't really have much to do this afternoon and ended up watching this on cable. Hadn't seen it in a decade, probably, but I was surprised to see it has held up better than other films from the same era. Most of it is thanks to Rebecca DeMornay's mischievous performance. It isn't devoid of most of the typical 90's tropes that lead it to end like a run-of-the-mill slasher, but it's still a serviceable thriller. Grade: Probably a B-

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Sun Dec 29, 2013 7:30 pm
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Post Re: Last Movie You Watched
Sexual Chocolate wrote:
I will concede one thing. Since 2000, there have been 22 nominations for black actors, more than all previous years combined.


That's certainly moving in a better direction, but it still is very limiting. Of those 22 nominations, these are the only ones that weren't required to be played by a black actor:

Denzel twice (Training Day & Flight)
Terrence Howard (Hustle & Flow)
Jamie Foxx (Collateral)
Halle Berry (Monster's Ball)
Queen Latifa (Chicago)
Quvenzhané Wallis (Beasts of the Southern Wild)

And really, you could argue that Howard and all three women had to be played by a black actor, but I'm defining it as broadly as I can to be fair. It's just crazy. And don't get me wrong: I'm not screaming blatant racism in all cases, but clearly the everyday characters are not played by people who, again, simply happen to be black. To use two random (Oscar-nominated) examples, there's no reason Woody Harrellson in The Messenger or Anna Kendrick in Up in the Air couldn't be played by a black actor, but that's almost never the case.


Sun Dec 29, 2013 8:10 pm
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Post Re: Last Movie You Watched
Bechdel test?

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Sun Dec 29, 2013 8:58 pm
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Post Re: Last Movie You Watched
Rare Exports: A Christmas Tale

Brilliant, Brilliant premise. What if the Santa Clause was an evil, mystical being and long ago, ancient people buried him to keep him from eating their kids alive? Now, what if today, a mysterious organization wants to dig him up, for nefarious purposes? Unfortunately, the film takes way too long to devolope said premise, while the films primary conflict is resolved too easily. As a result, the middle section becomes a bit tedious and then once things start to look like they'll kick into high gear, the film is over.

There are questions of motives. It was never adequately explained what organization was trying to dig up Santa or why. There's also the question of does Santa eat bad kids, kill them, or punish them? Not that it matters a great deal, but it would have been nice to have that explained a little more clearly. Also who are his helpers, why do they help him, and what are their powers? A few more details being added to the backstory would not have hurt this at all.

Then there's an unexplained bit where the main characters show up the digsite and all the workers have already cleared and obviously in a hurry, but then we're shown a scene afterwards where they're back and in the process of heading out because they failed to follow the safety instructions. It's not framed as a flashback, but the only way it makes sense continuity wise is if it was. The film is otherwise well made, so this moment is an oddity, but I thought I'd point it out, as it's representative of the films key issues. While many elements are clearly well thought, and the filmmakers display some level of talent, it's just that minor flaws tend to add up into making this a mildly unsatifying export.
-Jeremy

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Sun Dec 29, 2013 9:09 pm
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Post Re: Last Movie You Watched
Syd Henderson wrote:
Bechdel test?


2 woman have to talk to each other and the subject of their conversation can not be about a man.


Sun Dec 29, 2013 9:20 pm
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Post Re: Last Movie You Watched
patrick wrote:
Syd Henderson wrote:
Bechdel test?


2 woman have to talk to each other and the subject of their conversation can not be about a man.


I've always found that to me rather constraining. Human relationships can be absolutely fascinating on film, and male-female relationships have formed the backbone of many great films. I've always felt that women discussing men doesn't necessarily cheapen the female characters; it depends on the context of the film.

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Sun Dec 29, 2013 9:32 pm
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Post Re: Last Movie You Watched
Two watches today...

The Hand that Rocks the Cradle Didn't really have much to do this afternoon and ended up watching this on cable. Hadn't seen it in a decade, probably, but I was surprised to see it has held up better than other films from the same era. Most of it is thanks to Rebecca DeMornay's mischievous performance. It isn't devoid of most of the typical 90's tropes that lead it to end like a run-of-the-mill slasher, but it's still a serviceable thriller. Grade: Probably a B- or a C+

RED What a fun film. Not much else to say about it, only that it was a hoot. Grade: B+

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Sun Dec 29, 2013 10:31 pm
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Post Re: Last Movie You Watched
Sexual Chocolate wrote:
patrick wrote:
Syd Henderson wrote:
Bechdel test?


2 woman have to talk to each other and the subject of their conversation can not be about a man.


I've always found that to me rather constraining. Human relationships can be absolutely fascinating on film, and male-female relationships have formed the backbone of many great films. I've always felt that women discussing men doesn't necessarily cheapen the female characters; it depends on the context of the film.

I agree, it would be unrealistic if women didn't talk about men at least once in awhile. The 2008 film "The Women" may not necessarily pass the "test" but that dosen't mean the female characters are any less interesting.


Sun Dec 29, 2013 10:37 pm
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Post Re: Last Movie You Watched
It seems to work well (in term of representation, not quality) for a mainstream romantic comedy or ensemble drama, but just for an interesting afterthought rather than an actual criticism.


Sun Dec 29, 2013 11:02 pm
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