Discussion of movies and ReelThoughts topics
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peng
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 Re: Last Movie You Watched
Haha yes. The content and the visual just screamed ending material. But then the movie clicked into high gear and I kinda forgot about it until the end. It also helps that Alfred disappeared for almost half the film and came back at the very end.
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| Thu Jul 19, 2012 10:57 pm |
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Ragnarok73
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 Re: Last Movie You Watched
The Dark Knight Rises - ****1/2 out of *****
This was a great film from start to finish and the length was in fact not a detriment for that reason, as Nolan does understand pacing. For me, this easily tops The Avengers as a film despite the fact that its plot was almost as generic. This is one of the films of 2012 that I would recommend that everyone here see if possible.
My more detailed thoughts on the film can be found in JB's review thread. All said, this was a great way for Nolan to bow out of the franchise for one of the most well-known (and better known now thanks to Nolan's films) heroes in popular culture.
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| Fri Jul 20, 2012 5:38 am |
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darthyoshi
Cinematographer
Joined: Sun Mar 01, 2009 9:17 pm Posts: 529
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 Re: Last Movie You Watched
Letter From An Unknown Woman
I'm beginning to dislike Max Ophuls. I've only seen two of his films now, and they are both about women being foolish. Now, obviously both this film as well as The Earrings of Madame de... end in tragedy. Some would argue that Ophuls is trying to discourage romantic idealism because of this. I would disagree; his purpose is slightly ambiguous at times, but I think ultimately he depicts his protagonists in a "Romeo and Juliet" ish light, i.e. the whole world is out to get the innocent lover(s).
I think this movie works better than The Earrings of Madame de... purely because of Joan Fontaine's character. She is retarded, but Fontaine manages to pull of the transformation from squirrelly girl to accomplished lady better than anyone else could have. This makes her believable.
The other reason Letter From An Unknown Woman works better is its style. There are plenty of the Ophuls signature long track shots, but they are more subdued. They work in a way to bring out the beauty of the environment. But overall, the best shots in the movie are taken from a stationary camera. Some are wonderfully atmospheric; for instance, the second train station scene.
Like The Earrings of Madame de..., this film relies on its soundtrack quite heavily. The main theme borrows directly from the song the pianist plays through most of the movie (I think its a Rachmaninoff prelude). Occasionally it takes over the scene when Ophuls is trying to make a point. It has been written elsewhere that the tone and style of this film are greatly influenced by music and are musical in their composition; I'm sure this is true, but I'm not going to delve into it.
If anyone knows of an Ophuls movie that is not about women being stupid, let me know. My patience is running thin. I really want to give these movies lower scores, but they're just too well made.
3/4
Last edited by darthyoshi on Fri Jul 20, 2012 8:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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| Fri Jul 20, 2012 6:21 pm |
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Syd Henderson
Director
Joined: Tue Jun 30, 2009 1:35 am Posts: 1453
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 Re: Last Movie You Watched
Finally watched Metropolis (the 2010 restoration, I believe) and liked it a lot. I can see why people were having trouble making sense of it; some crucial scenes were omitted, including those explaining Rotwang's entire motivation. (Besides being an evil mad scientist, I mean. He had his reasons.) And why he just happened to have a spare robot around the house. With the restoration, it's got a pretty strong plot, and visually it's very striking. One thing that kept worrying me was the food supply. I assume it must be shipped in from the (unseen) countryside, but what sort of dole do the proles get, and why don't they worry about losing it? If you think of the condition of the city at the end of the movie, a famine is likely. My hunch about Alfred Abel was right; he's much better cast here than in Phantom. I got Georgy and Freder confused several times, which was a serious problem when Freder seemed to be in two places at once. There were also a few seconds when I got Maria and Robot Maria confused, but since Robot Maria acted more and more like a cackling madwoman as the film went on, it wasn't hard to figure out who she was. I liked Brigitte Helm in her double role; not bad considering it was her first film. (She had a pretty good career until she married a Jew in Nazi Germany.) I love the symphonic film score, which is performed by the Berlin Radio Symphony Orchestra. I believe it's Gottfried Huppertz's score. One of the best silent films, and though you can pick at it, its strengths are incredible and overwhelm its flaws. 9 of 10.
_________________ Evil does not wear a bonnet!--Mr. Tinkles
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| Fri Jul 20, 2012 7:32 pm |
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johnny larue
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 Re: Last Movie You Watched
The Dark Knight Rises (2012)
I will agree with most sentiments on this one...a very good movie. Still, I felt that the movie did run a bit long, well-paced or not. Also some nitpicks involving the plot timeline. Otherwise I'd agree with a 3.5 / 4.0.
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| Sat Jul 21, 2012 7:47 pm |
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Sexual Chocolate
Director
Joined: Sun Jun 20, 2010 4:04 pm Posts: 1138 Location: New Hampshire
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 Re: Last Movie You Watched
The Dark Knight Rises
I summed up my thoughts on another forum, so I'll just paste them here:
The Dark Knight Rises is extraordinarily well-made. The script is exceptional, and for a movie of its length it certainly moves. Its politics are ugly; if there's one word I'd use to describe this film, it's "fascist."
But if The dark Knight Rises is a fascist film, it's a damn thrilling fascist film. It's probably the best film that will come from a major studio this year.
_________________ Death is pretty final I'm collecting vinyl I'm gonna DJ at the end of the world.
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| Sun Jul 22, 2012 7:22 pm |
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JamesKunz
Critic
Joined: Wed Jul 29, 2009 9:35 am Posts: 5882 Location: Easton, MD
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 Re: Last Movie You Watched
I wonder if you'll tell me what part of the movie is extremely right-wing, characterized by extreme nationalism, irredentism, and glorification of the national leader. Because I didn't see a whole lot of that in The Dark Knight Rises. "Fascism" is one of those words that, if you're thinking of using it, you really really shouldn't.
_________________ I'm lithe and fierce as a tiger
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| Sun Jul 22, 2012 9:10 pm |
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Sexual Chocolate
Director
Joined: Sun Jun 20, 2010 4:04 pm Posts: 1138 Location: New Hampshire
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 Re: Last Movie You Watched
Oh, it's most definitely an extremely right-wing film. But I would rather not post anything that spoils the film. I will, however, note that I am not the only person to make this observation.
_________________ Death is pretty final I'm collecting vinyl I'm gonna DJ at the end of the world.
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| Sun Jul 22, 2012 10:14 pm |
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NotHughGrant
Director
Joined: Tue Jun 28, 2011 9:04 am Posts: 1249 Location: Lancashire, England.
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 Re: Last Movie You Watched
Dark Knight Rises (2012)
See other thread
9/10
_________________ The question, RAYMOND ... is what.. did you want.. to be?
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| Mon Jul 23, 2012 5:33 am |
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NotHughGrant
Director
Joined: Tue Jun 28, 2011 9:04 am Posts: 1249 Location: Lancashire, England.
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 Re: Last Movie You Watched
Not sure about extreme right-wing. There is a very strong pro-west, anti-communist theme though!
_________________ The question, RAYMOND ... is what.. did you want.. to be?
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| Mon Jul 23, 2012 5:35 am |
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PeachyPete
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 Re: Last Movie You Watched
The Dark Knight Rises, or as I'm going to refer to it from here on out, The Batman Movie With Shitty Dialogue. This movie was just plain bad. There's a million things wrong with the movie, so I guess I'll just start listing them in a spoiler box-thingy: - It seemed like every scene ended with a cheesy one-liner or a character explicitly stating why they're there. It was laughably poor writing. And seriously, for such a "dark" film, why all the comic relief in this one that wasn't present in the first 2? I guess Nolan took the Joker's famous line from TDK...wait for it...seriously! Keep the tone consistent.
- I guess nuclear bombs don't kill people anymore. I'm all for suspension of disbelief, but come one. IT'S A NUCLEAR BOMB! Batman would be dead, as would all of Gotham. Such a ridiculous contrivance. Also, completely neutered. Dark, dark, dark...oh here's a happy ending for Bruce Wayne because I'm too much of a pussy to follow the ideas I've set up for 3 fucking movies to their logical conclusion.
- Awful twist with Cotillard being Talia al Ghul. I know, it was in the comics and all that stuff. Still, it was terribly executed in the film. I mean, she was a character on the periphery of the story the entire time (and served very little purpose as such), and then all of a sudden she's the evil mastermind? WHO CARES!?!? If that's the big twist, invest the audience in that character so they care. As is, it meant nothing to me other than to give the film an obligatory twist.
- John Blake just knows Bruce Wayne is Batman. Repeat, he just knew. He could just tell. Talk about horrible writing.
- Mathew Modine's character serves literally no purpose. None. Get him completely out of your self-important film, Nolan.
- Don't set your movie 8 years into the future if you're going to spend a painfully slow first hour recapping those 8 years. Or, get better at exposition.
- The inmates in Bane's prison torture Wayne, then tell him stories, then cheer for him to escape. What!?!? Why???
- Speaking of Bane, why even get a name actor like Tom Hardy to play him if he's essentially going to be a voice actor? He did have one incredibly preachy speech where any sublety about what he was possibly supposed to represent was crushed under Nolan's heavy hand. There's a bunch more, but I figure that's enough to get people angry at me, and I don't care too much for plausibility or picking apart plot holes, except in very ridiculous cases. There's a lot of ideas in the film, and there are a few images towards the end where Batman is hope personified, but the writing in the film was an enormous let down. There's just no subtlety to it, it's overstuffed to the point of combustion, and it's full of hokey, cliche one-liners that a truly "inventive" film wouldn't waste time on. The result is a pretty bad film. 5/10 for me.
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| Mon Jul 23, 2012 8:47 am |
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johnny larue
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 Re: Last Movie You Watched
The Girl Who Played With Fire (2009)
Sequel to The Girl With The Dragon Tattoo, this theatrical cut of the Swedish miniseries suffers quite a bit from being condensed. (I believe this version is about an hour shorter than the televised version of the story.) And while episodes from the book are displayed on screen, a lot of tone has shifted. For instance, in the book, Salander has an ongoing hate and distrust of Blomkvist throughout. That is really toned down here to be almost non-existent. Also, the dynamics of the Swedish police, which are a large part of the book (if not the largest), are jettisoned in the movie version. The Bublanski character especially gets short-changed.
A lot of things happen in the movie and we never really find out why. Characters just go from encounter to encounter. Granted, the source material was never that strong to begin with, but this was still a bit of a disappointment. 2.5 / 4.0
The People Vs. George Lucas (2010)
This documentary focuses on the fanboy backlash to George Lucas, mainly focusing on the original trilogy re-releases and the pre-quel trilogies. Mostly it serves as a forum to a) give fanboys an avenue to vent, b) showcase some of the great lengths fans have gone to honor their favorite movie franchise and c) outline the many ways that George Lucas has given the middle finger to his fan collective.
The filmakers give a spirited prosecution of Lucas and a token defense at parts. Not too many familiar names make it on screen for interviews. Gary Kurtz, Neil Gaiman and Francis Ford Coppola are the biggest names to appear.
I guess that I had a problem with what the film was trying to get at, apart from being a 90 minute whine-fest. There were a few insightful observations and some laughs, but mostly this was like eating frosting without the cake. My favorite observations were probably from one fan who noted that the best way to display how much of a fan you are was to display how much you hated Star Wars (or what Star Wars had become). The other one was from Coppola who spoke about how, after Lucas became wildly successful with Star Wars, he was no longer a director but a producer of things. Coppola was saddened by the George Lucas projects the world was robbed of because of his success. Interesting sentiment, but if Red Tails is any indication (a project not directed by Lucas but one that he was extremely close to), we aren't missing much. 2.5/4.0
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| Mon Jul 23, 2012 9:54 am |
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Blonde Almond
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 Re: Last Movie You Watched
Your thoughts pretty much line up exactly with my own. There are individual elements that I can appreciate, but similar to Prometheus, there are too many faults in the script and in the execution, all of which prevent me from fully embracing it. I could make a long list of elements that I felt didn't work, but for now I'll just single out one: Seriously, how lame was Bane's death? This incredibly imposing figure for over two hours gets dispatched in a flash by a wise-cracking Catwoman. I actually didn't realize he was dead until about ten minutes later when it became clear that he wasn't coming back.
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| Mon Jul 23, 2012 10:06 am |
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PeachyPete
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 Re: Last Movie You Watched
Yes, that's another one I didn't mention. For one, who didn't know Catwoman was going to make the "right" choice and comeback and save Batman's ass? That's just another incredibly lazy, uninventive plot point. Not to mention their entire relationship was undeveloped and totally forced. Her kissing him before they parted-ways-but-didn't-really was eyeroll inducing.
Also, like you, I didn't even realize Bane had died until a few scenes later when it was clear he wasn't coming back. Awful death for someone who was supposed to be an ultimate badass.
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| Mon Jul 23, 2012 11:21 am |
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peng
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 Re: Last Movie You Watched
- How did they torture Wayne? They just got ordered (or paid) not to let him die, and to keep the TV going to let him see what happened with Gotham. For that matter, only two people were a part of this, and those were the only ones that were not outrageously cheering for him to escape (The younger one watched in anticipation among the crowd, and the old one kind of prayed (or cheered? I feel those were different words than what they were cheering but I am not sure). Anyway I thought any prisoner there would wish anyone to escape that hell.)
- For the first point, I don't quite get how this is a complaint. The whole third act's struggle is based on if they got the bomb out of the city in time, so... people should survive I guess? A lot of people died during the revolution riot, the kangaroo court, and the climatic fight. The bomb was just the final deal for Gotham's survival. A wide blast radius was indicated, and Batman brought the bomb outsides that blast radius, so...?
How do the 3 movies set up logically for Batman/Bruce Wayne to die? It's way too late for me over here to delve into all 3 movies, so let's just focus on the last one. The movie's name is The Dark Knight Rises. Alfred said that Bruce Wayne stayed in the city and didn't move on with his life in any way because he waited for bad things to happen, so he would go back to be Batman again. And without Rachel or Dent to hold on to, he was just reckless in fighting than ever before, not caring, maybe even hoping, that he would die, a reason why Alfred left him. When he was in the pit, the reason he finally was able to escape it was because he didn't use the rope, to let the fear guiding him (a point made further by his own fear, the bats, came swirling around him just before he jumped); he finally was able to realize his fear of death and felt that he wanted to live. So, his complex (that began with the fear of bats coupled with his parents' death in a crime) resolved, when he was done saving Gotham and found a suitable successor in John Blake, he finally could let go of Batman and lived another life. (In a way, Bruce Wayne was dead for him. He let go of everything about that identity: the name, the wealth, Gotham, and started as a new person.)
I feel there are more cues for this theme even in this movie alone, but now it's too late in the night for me and my shaky English to articulate coherently.
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| Mon Jul 23, 2012 2:57 pm |
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Ragnarok73
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 Re: Last Movie You Watched
About Selina Kyle (she is never actually called "Catwoman" in the film): given that in the comics, she is considered to be Wayne's true love interest (or at least the longest recurring), I don't see how it's disappointing to see her become such in the film, at all. For anyone who didn't know the comics, the moment when she first betrayed Wayne to Bane was a good enough red herring to throw people off her true motives initially. However, the scenes where she's talking to Blake (and telling him how afraid she is of Bane) and where she saves the child stealing an apple display her innate morality and thus set up her aiding Batman in the final battle, so it's not like she did a 180-degree turn out of nowhere.
Bane was indeed a badass, but remember that he WAS defeated by Batman in the end, which is why he was going to kill him despite Talia's order to the contrary. Also, with the revelation of Talia, it turned out that Bane was in the end a henchman rather than the primary villain.
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| Mon Jul 23, 2012 3:06 pm |
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PeachyPete
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 Re: Last Movie You Watched
It's just kind of ridiculous that these prisoners, who have no avenue to escape, are being paid to do anything. What good is the money to them? And keeping the TV going is a form of torture. Then they chatted with him for what seemed like hours, giving him all kinds of information. It was just really lame. Uhhh, where was Batman when the bomb went off? He survived a nuclear explosion despite being in very close proximity to the bomb going off? As for the rest of the city, again, it's a fucking nuke! There's more than just blast radius to contend with (not to mention a blast radius he escaped in like 10 seconds. 6 miles in 10 seconds...right). To think everyone (Batman and Gotham's inhabitants) would live in that situation, given what the film shows, requires a suspension of disbelief that's almost insulting.  |  |  |  | peng wrote: How do the 3 movies set up logically for Batman/Bruce Wayne to die? It's way too late for me over here to delve into all 3 movies, so let's just focus on the last one. The movie's name is The Dark Knight Rises. Alfred said that Bruce Wayne stayed in the city and didn't move on with his life in any way because he waited for bad things to happen, so he would go back to be Batman again. And without Rachel or Dent to hold on to, he was just reckless in fighting than ever before, not caring, maybe even hoping, that he would die, a reason why Alfred left him. When he was in the pit, the reason he finally was able to escape it was because he didn't use the rope, to let the fear guiding him (a point made further by his own fear, the bats, came swirling around him just before he jumped); he finally was able to realize his fear of death and felt that he wanted to live. So, his complex (that began with the fear of bats coupled with his parents' death in a crime) resolved, when he was done saving Gotham and found a suitable successor in John Blake, he finally could let go of Batman and lived another life. (In a way, Bruce Wayne was dead for him. He let go of everything about that identity: the name, the wealth, Gotham, and started as a new person.) |  |  |  |  |
Why should Batman have died? Becuase the fucking movie showed him sacrificing himself to save the city! Instead, he survives a nuke going off in his face! I mean, come on. Nolan didn't have the balls to kill him off so went for the happier, wrapped up, cliche ending. Maybe that's too harsh, but it struck me as gutless and pandering to fanboys. It isn't just the fact that she becomes a love interest, it's how it's done in the film. In fact, it isn't really done. Batman just kind of decides there's more to her for no real reason. Then they kiss. It's pretty poorly handled and seems like just an obligatory romance because it was in the comics.
As for her morality, I think one small scene (actually just a moment, not really a scene) to show her "innate morality" is pretty shoddy character development. Either way, even if it had been developed better, it's still uninspired writing. I mean, stuff like that is dripping in cliche. It's the kind of writing that would make for good parody, not good drama. I realize all that, but it doesn't make his death any less lame. Don't prop a villain up for almost 3 hours as almost invincible and have the wisecracking sidekick kill him. The whole ending with Talia and Bane was just contrived and silly. It's an empty, hollow twist, that serves no purpose outside of giving the audience a temporary "oh!" moment. The result is that it betrays the 2 hours and 35 minutes (or however long it was) that came before it.
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| Mon Jul 23, 2012 3:46 pm |
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thered47
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 Re: Last Movie You Watched
Errr... this didn't bother me too much as I imagine the prisoners have a lot of time on their hands and have no inherent motive to withhold info or not treat Wayne's back. And since when where they being paid? 2 things. One, did Batman actually survive or did Alfred simply see what he wanted so desperately to see? I do think, like Inception, there was supposed to be a little bit of ambiguity to this scene. Which is why I disliked the second plot point you missed, the whole thing about Fox finding out the auto pilot had been fixed as that killed any ambiguity there was. Once the auto pilot was fixed Wayne could simply have ejected early (perhaps before the bat copter had even gotten away from dry land)and gotten to a safe distance. As for nuclear fallout... maybe the city was upwind from the prevailing winds? Plus there are all kinds of ways you can deal with and avoid the affects of nuclear fallout as well. Stay inside, wear lead jackets, etc. The cancer rate is probably going to spike several years down the line but again, more lives are going to be saved this way then if they had simply let the bomb go off in the city. -Jeremy
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| Tue Jul 24, 2012 9:52 am |
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darthyoshi
Cinematographer
Joined: Sun Mar 01, 2009 9:17 pm Posts: 529
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 Re: Last Movie You Watched
The Dark Knight RisesI've always been a fan of Christopher Nolan. I loved The Dark Knight when it came out, and I still watch it whenever I find it playing on TV. I think Inception was the Five Guys of summer action movies; after experiencing it, you don't understand why everything else isn't on the same level. I loved The Prestige and Memento. I liked Batman Begins, but not as much as any of Nolan's other works. The thing is, I've learned a lot about film in the past few years. The more time I spend watching films off the top 1000 and reading essays, the more critical I am. I pick out technical errors and deconstruct plots in a way I never have. My perception of films has shifted. I'm sure I will learn much more as time goes on. So when I was watching The Dark Knight Rises, I picked up on plot holes and consistency mistakes right away. It doesn't make any god damned sense why Blake knows Batman's identity. In the space of 2 minutes, it goes from day to night and later does the opposite. I could go on. While doing research for my review, I came across Red Letter Media's review ( http://redlettermedia.com/half-in-the-b ... ght-rises/). They pick out a lot of the same problems I did, but they have a good point. In a movie that is so well crafted otherwise, these things are almost forgivable. Going back to Nolan's other films, I'm sure that the same thing could be said about them. I can understand now why people never shared my love of Nolan films, but at the same time I do not understand the vitriol towards him. To me, it seems like it stems from resenting undeserved praise. His films aren't perfect and they deserve more critical analysis, but they are still great films compared to the other crap that plays along side them in the multiplexes. Regardless of your opinion of Nolan, his films get people excited about movies in a way that few other films do. Christopher Nolan is the Batman of cinema*. All that said, it is time to look at his latest film objectively. I generally liked the story. It's strongest elements were its character arcs: Bruce Wayne's and Blake's, specifically. Michael Caine as Alfred stole the scene every time he was on screen. I almost cried when Alfred breaks down at Bruce Wayne's burial. I would love to see him get a supporting actor nomination. Yet while some characters are handled extremely well, some are clunky. Selena Kyle's motivation change at the end is abrupt. The lovely Marion Cotillard didn't manage to sell the sinister mastermind character. Bane has some great moments in the film, but he doesn't have a proper beginning or end. We don't really know why we should care about him at first other than he is a bad guy with a scary mask, and his death is sudden and unsatisfying. . To be honest, I think The Dark Knight Rises could have gone on for another half an hour and no one would have noticed. I think it would fix a lot of issues. It feels like a lot of the plot holes were explained in deleted scenes. I have to say, I don't like Anne Hathaway. Her face is weird and her lips are always too red. She didn't annoy me here. But I have to wonder if there wasn't someone who could have done this better. She just physically doesn't feel like Catwoman. She is not a femme fatale. I would have liked to see someone like Scarlett Johansson instead. Overall, it was a good movie. Not as good as The Dark Knight. More interesting than Batman Begins, but not as streamlined. 3/4 *I realize that this is a conclusion similar to the Cracked article found here: http://www.cracked.com/blog/3-things-we ... ns-batman/ I agree with a lot of what he says, but I'm over the blind praise.
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| Tue Jul 24, 2012 6:38 pm |
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PeachyPete
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 Re: Last Movie You Watched
It's just very inconsistent and confusing. You have a group of guys torturing Wayne and being paid for it (you just missed that as it was explicitly mentioned), then giving him information on Bane, then cheering for him to escape. The whole scene was an overly complicated metaphor for Wayne's mental and physical condition bettering. He literally rose from the pits of despair. There's really no reason for Alfred to be seeing what he wanted to desperately see. If that was supposed to be ambiguous, it's another example of poor writing in the film. The ending of Inception worked not because it was ambiguous (because it really wasn't), but because Cobb stopped caring about the concept of true reality and decided to choose one for himself. It only matters to the audience whether or not his top kept spinning or fell. There's nothing added to the film if Alfred is seeing what he wants at the end of the movie. If you're right (which I don't think you are), all it amounts to is another twist for twist's sake.
At this point I don't really feel the need to defend the nuclear bomb point anymore. It's so silly that folks are getting into "well maybe this or maybe that". That's when I know my point has been made. When you have to start giving a movie credit for things it didn't show, and reaching for explanations, it's safe to say it's a poorly executed plot point. Anyone can rationalize anything with a "well, maybe".
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| Wed Jul 25, 2012 5:34 pm |
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