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Letting plot holes slide 
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Post Letting plot holes slide
I wanted to mention a film I saw over the weekend. It was called Armored, and it was rather good. One thing, though: It had a pretty big plot hole (namely, the heist planned in the film would not work under any circumstances). However, I found that since the film didn't try to be more than what it was, the plot hole didn't bother me that much.

So what is your opinion? If a film is enjoyable enough, can you allow for a lapse in logic?

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Tue Jan 28, 2014 5:00 pm
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Post Re: Letting plot holes slide
If I don't notice it while I watch, I don't care.

If I do...then the movie was bad to begin with


Tue Jan 28, 2014 5:01 pm
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Post Re: Letting plot holes slide
My normal attention to detail is pretty poor, so most of the time the holes slide by me without much notice. I did watch a film (The Clinic) this weekend for which the entire plot was pretty ridiculous, but even then I was able to just go with it for the most part. I can certainly see why those with a good eye for details get very annoyed by plot holes.


Tue Jan 28, 2014 5:29 pm
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Post Re: Letting plot holes slide
Sexual Chocolate wrote:
I wanted to mention a film I saw over the weekend. It was called Armored, and it was rather good. One thing, though: It had a pretty big plot hole (namely, the heist planned in the film would not work under any circumstances). However, I found that since the film didn't try to be more than what it was, the plot hole didn't bother me that much.

So what is your opinion? If a film is enjoyable enough, can you allow for a lapse in logic?

A lot of heist films are pretty unrealistic in general(namely the Italian Job remake, that heist probably would've never worked in real life).

At the time I was watching Armored, the heist never really struck as implausible, at least until someone on the IMDB forums who actually did drive armored transports listed all the errors in the film.

I'd say it's more artistic license then actual plot holes with that film. To me a plot hole is when something in a film dosen't make sense in hindsight.

However it is true that I can more easily overlook plot holes if i'm actually enjoying the film in question, like with Men In Black III, that film had some plot holes(as does almost every movie involving time travel) but I enjoyed it well enough that I didn't mind them too much.

But if i'm not particularly enjoying a film, then gaping plot holes will only serve to piss me off even more and increase my dislike for the film, like with Signs. I wasn't liking the film very much to begin with, but the incredibly stupid twist where
[Reveal] Spoiler:
it's revealed that the aliens are allergic to freaking water really pushed me over the edge, if they're so deathly allergic then why the hell would they be stupid enough to go to a planet that's 75% water? Having such a pathetic weakness made it impossible to find the aliens remotely threatening.


Tue Jan 28, 2014 5:37 pm
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Post Re: Letting plot holes slide
There's one absolutely glaring error in Armored, and here it is:

The heist involves the crew ripping off $42 million in sequential bills from a Federal Reserve bank. Those banks keep track of every single dollar bill that goes in or out. Simply put, even if the heist had been successful, they could never have spent the money; the moment any of it turned up the Feds would have been all over it like flies on shit.

But as I said, it doesn't really alter my feelings about the film.

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Tue Jan 28, 2014 8:05 pm
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Post Re: Letting plot holes slide
It's a case-by-case thing--not just from story to story, but from person to person. Depending on who you are or what the story is, some plot holes are unforgivably distracting. But sometimes, maybe even a majority of the time, the lapses are insubstantial compared to the rest of the experience. Some stories can get away with playing fast and loose with story logic as long as they have enough going for them to keep you involved.

One of the most logic-oriented storytellers who ever lived once said this: "It has always seemed to me that as long as you produce your dramatic effect, accuracy of detail matters little. I have never striven for it and I have made some bad mistakes in consequence. What matter, as long as I hold my readers?"

People who obsess over plot holes and rip them mercilessly are usually fanboy geeks with a narrow appreciation for stories.

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Tue Jan 28, 2014 8:23 pm
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Post Re: Letting plot holes slide
Sexual Chocolate wrote:
There's one absolutely glaring error in Armored, and here it is:

The heist involves the crew ripping off $42 million in sequential bills from a Federal Reserve bank. Those banks keep track of every single dollar bill that goes in or out. Simply put, even if the heist had been successful, they could never have spent the money; the moment any of it turned up the Feds would have been all over it like flies on shit.

But as I said, it doesn't really alter my feelings about the film.

I'll admit that thought didn't cross my mind until now, but don't criminals usually launder hot cash in order to prevent that sort of thing from happening?


Tue Jan 28, 2014 10:16 pm
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Post Re: Letting plot holes slide
Vexer wrote:
Sexual Chocolate wrote:
There's one absolutely glaring error in Armored, and here it is:

The heist involves the crew ripping off $42 million in sequential bills from a Federal Reserve bank. Those banks keep track of every single dollar bill that goes in or out. Simply put, even if the heist had been successful, they could never have spent the money; the moment any of it turned up the Feds would have been all over it like flies on shit.

But as I said, it doesn't really alter my feelings about the film.

I'll admit that thought didn't cross my mind until now, but don't criminals usually launder hot cash in order to prevent that sort of thing from happening?


They do, but here's the catch: The Federal Reserve would know the serial number of every single bill that had been stolen, and they would have figured out who was laundering it eventually. To paraphrase Alan Rickman in Die Hard, steal $42 million and people will find you.

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Tue Jan 28, 2014 11:54 pm
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Post Re: Letting plot holes slide
Vexer wrote:
But if i'm not particularly enjoying a film, then gaping plot holes will only serve to piss me off even more and increase my dislike for the film, like with Signs. I wasn't liking the film very much to begin with, but the incredibly stupid twist where
[Reveal] Spoiler:
it's revealed that the aliens are allergic to freaking water really pushed me over the edge, if they're so deathly allergic then why the hell would they be stupid enough to go to a planet that's 75% water? Having such a pathetic weakness made it impossible to find the aliens remotely threatening.

[Reveal] Spoiler:
Yeah and errr, water can be defeated with a raincoat.

Signs is quite possibly the worst sci-fi film of ALL TIME. Except for maybe Inseminoid - that one was pretty fucking bad too.


Wed Jan 29, 2014 12:23 am
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Post Re: Letting plot holes slide
nitrium wrote:
Vexer wrote:
But if i'm not particularly enjoying a film, then gaping plot holes will only serve to piss me off even more and increase my dislike for the film, like with Signs. I wasn't liking the film very much to begin with, but the incredibly stupid twist where
[Reveal] Spoiler:
it's revealed that the aliens are allergic to freaking water really pushed me over the edge, if they're so deathly allergic then why the hell would they be stupid enough to go to a planet that's 75% water? Having such a pathetic weakness made it impossible to find the aliens remotely threatening.

[Reveal] Spoiler:
Yeah and errr, water can be defeated with a raincoat.

Signs is quite possibly the worst sci-fi film of ALL TIME. Except for maybe Inseminoid - that one was pretty fucking bad too.


For me it's more that he just fails to build on or do anything creative with a very old, well-worn, cliched device.

Things aliens, or monstrous creatures in general, may not like:

1. Water
2. Light
3. Extreme high or low temperatures


Wed Jan 29, 2014 12:40 am
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Post Re: Letting plot holes slide
nitrium wrote:
Vexer wrote:
But if i'm not particularly enjoying a film, then gaping plot holes will only serve to piss me off even more and increase my dislike for the film, like with Signs. I wasn't liking the film very much to begin with, but the incredibly stupid twist where
[Reveal] Spoiler:
it's revealed that the aliens are allergic to freaking water really pushed me over the edge, if they're so deathly allergic then why the hell would they be stupid enough to go to a planet that's 75% water? Having such a pathetic weakness made it impossible to find the aliens remotely threatening.

[Reveal] Spoiler:
Yeah and errr, water can be defeated with a raincoat.

Signs is quite possibly the worst sci-fi film of ALL TIME. Except for maybe Inseminoid - that one was pretty fucking bad too.

I thought Inseminoid was cheesy fun, there's way worse sci-fi films then that one, like Zone Troopers. Cowboys and Aliens was also pretty bad and had some gaping plot holes in itself.


Wed Jan 29, 2014 1:26 am
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Post Re: Letting plot holes slide
I thought Signs was great, until the last 10 minutes. And
[Reveal] Spoiler:
the alien stuff isn't the only absurd thing about the movie. Apparently Mel Gibson's dead wife was able to see the future. :roll:


Wed Jan 29, 2014 1:39 am
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Post Re: Letting plot holes slide
ilovemovies wrote:
I thought Signs was great, until the last 10 minutes. And
[Reveal] Spoiler:
the alien stuff isn't the only absurd thing about the movie. Apparently Mel Gibson's dead wife was able to see the future. :roll:

Oh yeah, I forgot about that part. I just didn't find the movie suspenseful at all, and Gibson really seemed to be phoning in his performance.


Wed Jan 29, 2014 1:44 am
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Post Re: Letting plot holes slide
I haven't seen Signs in years but I remember thinking it created a really good and fitting atmosphere. I don't remember caring about the thirsty plot hole when I was younger but thinking about it now, I'm sure I would get a chuckle. Maybe I won't re-watch it so my fond memories will remain intact.

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Wed Jan 29, 2014 3:01 am
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Post Re: Letting plot holes slide
Ocean's Eleven is a great example of this. The heist plot doesn't hold up at all, but that's surprisingly not that important to the success of the movie.

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Wed Jan 29, 2014 10:03 am
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Post Re: Letting plot holes slide
Plot holes are one of those things that have always remained alien to me. When someone brings up a plot hole in a film I've seen, I usually "get" it. But in the moment of most films, even the crappy ones, I cannot spot a plot hole if my life depended on it.

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Wed Jan 29, 2014 10:15 am
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Post Re: Letting plot holes slide
Like many said, if it is entertaining and doesn't present itself big enough in the moment, I would let it slide afterwards most of the time.

Now You See Me is a case that skirts the line more. It just threw plot hole after plot hole, more than half of which I recognize in the moment, but I really liked the energy of the direction and performances that I only somewhat eye-roll at them afterwards, but determine the movie itself passable enough. Very just barely though.


Wed Jan 29, 2014 10:23 am
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Post Re: Letting plot holes slide
peng wrote:
Like many said, if it is entertaining and doesn't present itself big enough in the moment, I would let it slide afterwards most of the time.

Now You See Me is a case that skirts the line more. It just threw plot hole after plot hole, more than half of which I recognize in the moment, but I really liked the energy of the direction and performances that I only somewhat eye-roll at them afterwards, but determine the movie itself passable enough. Very just barely though.


When the movie is about twists, plot holes become more significant. I had a problem with The Illusionist in this regard

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Wed Jan 29, 2014 10:28 am
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Post Re: Letting plot holes slide
Interesting idea put forth by one critic that there is

Quote:
a new form of post-content cinema, wherein the compression of so many plot holes into a single narrative - perhaps that should be anti-narrative - actually creates the illusion of coherence.


I never thought of it that way, but it definitely evokes several event movies of recent years in particular. And "post-content cinema" is definitely a spot-on threat right now.

I'm more concerned with that than with little holes in otherwise good films. I tend not to notice stuff like that. But still, I usually find that the best movies are those that start with the concept of a coherent plot. I enjoy films like, say Groundhog Day, where the plot hole issue doesn't even come up.


Wed Jan 29, 2014 10:36 am
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Post Re: Letting plot holes slide
MGamesCook wrote:
Interesting idea put forth by one critic that there is

Quote:
a new form of post-content cinema, wherein the compression of so many plot holes into a single narrative - perhaps that should be anti-narrative - actually creates the illusion of coherence.


I never thought of it that way, but it definitely evokes several event movies of recent years in particular. And "post-content cinema" is definitely a spot-on threat right now.

I'm more concerned with that than with little holes in otherwise good films. I tend not to notice stuff like that. But still, I usually find that the best movies are those that start with the concept of a coherent plot. I enjoy films like, say Groundhog Day, where the plot hole issue doesn't even come up.

I'd be willing to bet that this observation of "post-content" cinema coincided with a couple other major developments as well--namely the rise of quotational cinema as a dominant form, and the rise of TV and Internet-based media as legitimate competitors in audiovisual narrative.
JamesKunz wrote:
Ocean's Eleven is a great example of this. The heist plot doesn't hold up at all, but that's surprisingly not that important to the success of the movie.

You betcha. Ocean's 11 is ostensibly a heist flick, but the heist isn't the center of its appeal. It's a movie about big movie stars with good interpersonal chemistry, and the heist is an opportunity for them to participate in gags and crack wise with each other. This goes for a lot of genre films, but Ocean's 11 is particularly emblematic. (Look how pretty the people are!) It's also further validation of the Ebert maxim.

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Wed Jan 29, 2014 11:52 am
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