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SuperVILLAIN films? 
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Post SuperVILLAIN films?
The well must be running dry on the Superhero genre...

http://insidemovies.ew.com/2013/12/13/spider-man-venom-spinoff/


Fri Dec 13, 2013 1:24 pm
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Post Re: SuperVILLAIN films?
I actually kind of like the idea, it would be a nice change of pace.


Fri Dec 13, 2013 1:56 pm
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Post Re: SuperVILLAIN films?
Venom did have his own comic book back in the 90s. It had a nice anti-hero vibe to it, as I recall. It could actually work.


Fri Dec 13, 2013 2:06 pm
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Post Re: SuperVILLAIN films?
Sony wants some of that Marvel money. That's all it really is. They're trying to copy that business model and squeeze as many movies as they can under the Spiderman umbrella.


Fri Dec 13, 2013 2:37 pm
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Post Re: SuperVILLAIN films?
I welcome a Venom movie given how much I hated his laughable depiction in Sam Raimi's Spiderman 3.

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Fri Dec 13, 2013 3:03 pm
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Post Re: SuperVILLAIN films?
A Venom movie? Maybe they make movies about Jolt Cola and Game Gear while they're at it.

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Fri Dec 13, 2013 3:09 pm
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Post Re: SuperVILLAIN films?
Ken wrote:
A Venom movie? Maybe they make movies about Jolt Cola and Game Gear while they're at it.

I don't see anything wrong with it, if he had his own comic why not his own film as well?


Fri Dec 13, 2013 3:14 pm
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Post Re: SuperVILLAIN films?
"the Sinister Six, the Marvel Comics team of rouges"

Striking a blow for evil cosmeticians everywhere.

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Fri Dec 13, 2013 5:15 pm
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Post Re: SuperVILLAIN films?
Well the genre is definitely reaching that point. After Justice League, there'll be nothing left to hype but the villains. Already we have the announcement for X-Men: Apocalypse, emphasizing the villain. Not too long before Thanos, Darkseid, blah, blah, etc.


Fri Dec 13, 2013 9:56 pm
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Post Re: SuperVILLAIN films?
Hollywood should know that sometimes it's not good to have too much of a good thing.


Fri Dec 13, 2013 10:12 pm
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Post Re: SuperVILLAIN films?
ck100 wrote:
Hollywood should know that sometimes it's not good to have too much of a good thing.

As long as these films keep making money there's no such thing as "too much" for Hollywood.


Fri Dec 13, 2013 10:23 pm
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Post Re: SuperVILLAIN films?
It's not necessarily a bad idea. Malificent looks promising, and Wicked is a phenomenon. A movie with Dr. Doom as the central character could be pretty good. Probably better than any attempt at a Fantastic Four movie.

Milton was onto something when he made Satan his central character.

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Fri Dec 13, 2013 10:44 pm
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Post Re: SuperVILLAIN films?
I think a film that focuses on the villain is actually a great idea. Am I the only one who is sick to death of all the goody good holier than thou sanctimonious nice-guy heroes, strutting around like they own the place? Evil can be delicious, if it's done in the right way. I'm certain Magneto could also easily carry a movie.


Sat Dec 14, 2013 12:36 am
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Post Re: SuperVILLAIN films?
nitrium wrote:
Am I the only one who is sick to death of all the goody good holier than thou sanctimonious nice-guy heroes, strutting around like they own the place?

Let me know when one of these shows up. If anything, the entertainment industry is afraid of heroes who believe that good is worthwhile for its own sake. Few heroic characters survive the adaptation process without some kind of anti-heroic element being grafted on.

On the subject of Venom, he spent a short time in the comics as an out-and-out villain before graduating into one of the many proud tormented anti-heroes that infested '90s comics like a bad case of crabs.

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Sat Dec 14, 2013 12:56 am
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Post Re: SuperVILLAIN films?
Ken wrote:
nitrium wrote:
Am I the only one who is sick to death of all the goody good holier than thou sanctimonious nice-guy heroes, strutting around like they own the place?

Let me know when one of these shows up. If anything, the entertainment industry is afraid of heroes who believe that good is worthwhile for its own sake. Few heroic characters survive the adaptation process without some kind of anti-heroic element being grafted on.

On the subject of Venom, he spent a short time in the comics as an out-and-out villain before graduating into one of the many proud tormented anti-heroes that infested '90s comics like a bad case of crabs.


This 1000x. Villain protagonists are anti-heroes by definition. The word villain, by definition, means antagonist which means the conflict of the story. If the villain is the protagonist, he's not a villain. Doesn't matter if he's a bad person or not. There have dozens of cinematic anti-heroes who weren't good people. You make Venom the protagonist, he's not a villain anymore. At least not in that particular movie. We're talking fundamentals of fiction here.


Sat Dec 14, 2013 4:52 am
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Post Re: SuperVILLAIN films?
I think Paul Schrader said it best: an anti-hero is a character who has a heroic soul (which is every character, from his or her own point of view) but who does not do heroic deeds. Or, I'd qualify, who does deeds that must be somehow justified as heroic, since they aren't self-evidently so.

Spider-Man, Batman, Iron Man, most of the X-Men, the Hulk, and so on--all characters who, to some extent, have to be prodded into heroism by guilt, anger, greed, or some other negative reinforcement. The message implied here is not subtle: if any of these characters had their druthers, they'd be assholes with superpowers. Even Superman, who has the most heroic soul of all, was dragged through the mud a few times in his most recent outing.

We've been through at least a couple solid decades of anti-heroism in our heroic stories. It's as though we've lost the capacity to be ennobled by our fictions, so instead we opt for stories that voluntarily drag themselves down to a level that doesn't demand anything better of us. Honestly, I'm getting tired of it. It's not edgy or cool anymore. It's crass, it's cynical, and, worst of all, it's utterly commonplace. It's raging with the machine. Sticking it with the man. Genuine heroism, at this point, is the far greater challenge, both to writers and to audiences. Anti-heroism might as well be sold in McDonald's or Wal-Mart at this point.

Maybe it's because I'm not a teenager anymore, but I find myself more interested in characters who shoulder the burden of goodness and responsibility because of the intrinsic virtuousness of those things, rather than because they think it's their fault that their dad or their uncle died.

And Venom... fucking Venom, really? He was a lame Image Comics character before Image Comics even existed. Sam Raimi was right to resist the character until his hand was forced. He's a relic of the age when every other character was Deathstroke or Deadshot or Witchblade, and everybody either had a shitload of bandoliers or some weird deformity or something Xtreme or kool or something like that. Come on now. This shit is aimed even more strictly at 12-14 year old boys than all the other men in tights we've got already.

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Sat Dec 14, 2013 6:53 am
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Post Re: SuperVILLAIN films?
Well I think a Venom movie would be very cool and I disagree that it's only aimed at 12-14 year olds.


Sat Dec 14, 2013 1:45 pm
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Post Re: SuperVILLAIN films?
Ken wrote:
I think Paul Schrader said it best: an anti-hero is a character who has a heroic soul (which is every character, from his or her own point of view) but who does not do heroic deeds. Or, I'd qualify, who does deeds that must be somehow justified as heroic, since they aren't self-evidently so.

Spider-Man, Batman, Iron Man, most of the X-Men, the Hulk, and so on--all characters who, to some extent, have to be prodded into heroism by guilt, anger, greed, or some other negative reinforcement. The message implied here is not subtle: if any of these characters had their druthers, they'd be assholes with superpowers. Even Superman, who has the most heroic soul of all, was dragged through the mud a few times in his most recent outing.

We've been through at least a couple solid decades of anti-heroism in our heroic stories. It's as though we've lost the capacity to be ennobled by our fictions, so instead we opt for stories that voluntarily drag themselves down to a level that doesn't demand anything better of us. Honestly, I'm getting tired of it. It's not edgy or cool anymore. It's crass, it's cynical, and, worst of all, it's utterly commonplace. It's raging with the machine. Sticking it with the man. Genuine heroism, at this point, is the far greater challenge, both to writers and to audiences. Anti-heroism might as well be sold in McDonald's or Wal-Mart at this point.

Maybe it's because I'm not a teenager anymore, but I find myself more interested in characters who shoulder the burden of goodness and responsibility because of the intrinsic virtuousness of those things, rather than because they think it's their fault that their dad or their uncle died.


And Venom... fucking Venom, really? He was a lame Image Comics character before Image Comics even existed. Sam Raimi was right to resist the character until his hand was forced. He's a relic of the age when every other character was Deathstroke or Deadshot or Witchblade, and everybody either had a shitload of bandoliers or some weird deformity or something Xtreme or kool or something like that. Come on now. This shit is aimed even more strictly at 12-14 year old boys than all the other men in tights we've got already.


Somebody strike a nerve dude?


Sat Dec 14, 2013 3:59 pm
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Post Re: SuperVILLAIN films?
MGamesCook wrote:
If the villain is the protagonist, he's not a villain. Doesn't matter if he's a bad person or not. There have dozens of cinematic anti-heroes who weren't good people. You make Venom the protagonist, he's not a villain anymore. At least not in that particular movie. We're talking fundamentals of fiction here.

So you don't see (for example) Scarface as a villain? Really? You watch that film and you see an "anti-hero", because he is the protagonist?


Sat Dec 14, 2013 4:18 pm
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Post Re: SuperVILLAIN films?
nitrium wrote:
So you don't see (for example) Scarface as a villain? Really? You watch that film and you see an "anti-hero", because he is the protagonist?

Most people who love Scarface don't see him as a villain. What does that tell you?

Vexer wrote:
Well I think a Venom movie would be very cool and I disagree that it's only aimed at 12-14 year olds.

I swear I foresaw this exact reply from you in this exact thread in a dream last night.

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Sat Dec 14, 2013 4:52 pm
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