Discussion of movies and ReelThoughts topics

It is currently Wed Aug 27, 2014 1:17 pm




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 33 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2
SuperVILLAIN films? 
Author Message
Second Unit Director

Joined: Thu Oct 11, 2012 12:07 pm
Posts: 377
Post Re: SuperVILLAIN films?
nitrium wrote:
MGamesCook wrote:
If the villain is the protagonist, he's not a villain. Doesn't matter if he's a bad person or not. There have dozens of cinematic anti-heroes who weren't good people. You make Venom the protagonist, he's not a villain anymore. At least not in that particular movie. We're talking fundamentals of fiction here.

So you don't see (for example) Scarface as a villain? Really? You watch that film and you see an "anti-hero", because he is the protagonist?


A real villain would have blown the car up and given zero fucks if his family was in the car or not.


Sat Dec 14, 2013 6:15 pm
Profile
Director
User avatar

Joined: Sun Nov 18, 2012 2:37 am
Posts: 1026
Location: Laurel, MD
Post Re: SuperVILLAIN films?
Ken wrote:
Vexer wrote:
Well I think a Venom movie would be very cool and I disagree that it's only aimed at 12-14 year olds.

I swear I foresaw this exact reply from you in this exact thread in a dream last night.


Did you? Or is THIS the dream? 8-)

_________________
https://www.facebook.com/ken.rossman.5


Sat Dec 14, 2013 7:33 pm
Profile
Producer
User avatar

Joined: Sun Oct 07, 2012 6:26 pm
Posts: 2157
Post Re: SuperVILLAIN films?
Come to think of it, my boss did just call me and tell me to memorize the number 528491...

_________________
The temptation is to like what you should like--not what you do like... another temptation is to come up with an interesting reason for liking it that may not actually be the reason you like it.


Sat Dec 14, 2013 7:36 pm
Profile
Director

Joined: Thu Oct 11, 2012 7:44 pm
Posts: 1670
Post Re: SuperVILLAIN films?
Quote:
So you don't see (for example) Scarface as a villain? Really? You watch that film and you see an "anti-hero", because he is the protagonist?


No not really. I think viewers are more amused by him than anything. He's more of a bizarre anti-hero in the Hawks version, in De Palma's he's just a clown. But even then, there's plenty of moments where De Palma's trying to say "look, this guy's not as bad as some of these other guys." He's a gangster trying to climb up in the world. Even though he's a bad person, he's not the villain of the movie. The villain of the movie is his antagonist who sends all the dudes to his mansion.

A villain is just someone who opposes the hero. You want him to be menacing but you also want to see the hero kick their ass. Most villains are designed that way and therefore couldn't hold together their own movie. I think Goldfinger and Oddjob are great villains, but a movie with just them as the protagonists would be pretty boring. They need someone or something to menace, to challenge, to vex and be vexed by; otherwise their characters don't work. They depend on their narrative functionality in order to work as characters.

So if they were to make a Venom movie, he would have to have his own villain. I have to wonder if at a certain point audiences will just become confused.

I could almost see it working though. Make a Chronicle-type movie where Venom has a tragic downfall. Make it like a gangster thing where society has to take him down. I could definitely see that being interesting, for ONE movie. As for the Sinister Six...not so sure.


Sat Dec 14, 2013 11:38 pm
Profile
Director
User avatar

Joined: Sun Oct 07, 2012 10:42 pm
Posts: 1404
Location: Bangkok
Post Re: SuperVILLAIN films?
I've watched it only once, but in my mind Taxi Driver is a film about a villain.


Sun Dec 15, 2013 12:14 am
Profile
Director

Joined: Thu Oct 11, 2012 7:44 pm
Posts: 1670
Post Re: SuperVILLAIN films?
peng wrote:
I've watched it only once, but in my mind Taxi Driver is a film about a villain.


Disagree.


Sun Dec 15, 2013 12:21 am
Profile
Director
User avatar

Joined: Sun Oct 07, 2012 10:42 pm
Posts: 1404
Location: Bangkok
Post Re: SuperVILLAIN films?
Maybe it's just me (I watched it when I was a kid too, if that helps), but I find Travis Bickle a pretty repellant, irredeemable individual, even though I had a rooting interest in seeing his story played out.


Sun Dec 15, 2013 12:27 am
Profile
Assistant Director
User avatar

Joined: Sat Oct 13, 2012 2:42 pm
Posts: 893
Location: New Zealand
Post Re: SuperVILLAIN films?
peng wrote:
Maybe it's just me (I watched it when I was a kid too, if that helps), but I find Travis Bickle a pretty repellant, irredeemable individual, even though I had a rooting interest in seeing his story played out.

Agreed on Taxi Driver. Also springing to mind is Harvey Keitel in Bad Lieutenant, a film about a tragic villain (a really, really bad cop), battling internal demons rather than a hero character. Come to think of it, what about Reservoir Dogs, Pulp Fiction, Natural Born Killers, Monster, American Psycho, Downfall and Bonnie and Clyde that also all focus on fairly (or in Downfall's case, VERY) reprehensible protagonists. Game of Thrones has a menagerie of characters so diverse, you don't know who you're even supposed to be rooting for, e.g. while Joffrey is obviously a standard "villain", where do you place Tyrion or Dany? The majority of GoT characters are driven either by a lust for power and/or revenge - classic traits of villians. There is actually a lot of this material already out there and much more with significant potential in the comic book genre. I maintain that there are Super Villains that are just as interesting (e.g. their back stories and motivations) as their Super Hero counterparts and could carry a film while maintaining their classic "villain" status, and not alienating audiences.


Sun Dec 15, 2013 1:51 am
Profile
Director

Joined: Thu Oct 11, 2012 7:44 pm
Posts: 1670
Post Re: SuperVILLAIN films?
Quote:
Game of Thrones has a menagerie of characters so diverse, you don't know who you're even supposed to be rooting for, e.g. while Joffrey is obviously a standard "villain", where do you place Tyrion or Dany? The majority of GoT characters are driven either by a lust for power and/or revenge - classic traits of villians.


Yeah well, that's TV. I haven't watched an episode of TV in about 7 years. This is about movies.


Sun Dec 15, 2013 4:35 am
Profile
Second Unit Director

Joined: Thu Oct 11, 2012 12:07 pm
Posts: 377
Post Re: SuperVILLAIN films?
MGamesCook wrote:
Quote:
Game of Thrones has a menagerie of characters so diverse, you don't know who you're even supposed to be rooting for, e.g. while Joffrey is obviously a standard "villain", where do you place Tyrion or Dany? The majority of GoT characters are driven either by a lust for power and/or revenge - classic traits of villians.


Yeah well, that's TV. I haven't watched an episode of TV in about 7 years. This is about movies.


Oooooooo....you just got your meat cut son.

No tv in 7 years?...pussy.


Sun Dec 15, 2013 12:21 pm
Profile
Assistant Director
User avatar

Joined: Sat Aug 15, 2009 10:40 pm
Posts: 922
Post Re: SuperVILLAIN films?
Please god no! No more superheroes....

While they're still making a profit, the numbers are down. I think, or at least hope, they're on their last breath.

_________________
My movie review site:

Mighty Mike's Raging Reviews

http://mightymikesragingreviews.blogspot.com/


Sun Dec 15, 2013 10:02 pm
Profile WWW
Auteur
User avatar

Joined: Sun Oct 07, 2012 12:02 pm
Posts: 3508
Location: Zion, IL
Post Re: SuperVILLAIN films?
moviemkr7 wrote:
Please god no! No more superheroes....

While they're still making a profit, the numbers are down. I think, or at least hope, they're on their last breath.

Yeah I don't see that happening in this lifetime.


Sun Dec 15, 2013 10:35 pm
Profile
Critic
User avatar

Joined: Wed Jul 29, 2009 9:35 am
Posts: 7379
Location: Easton, MD
Post Re: SuperVILLAIN films?
roastbeef_ajus wrote:
MGamesCook wrote:
Quote:
Game of Thrones has a menagerie of characters so diverse, you don't know who you're even supposed to be rooting for, e.g. while Joffrey is obviously a standard "villain", where do you place Tyrion or Dany? The majority of GoT characters are driven either by a lust for power and/or revenge - classic traits of villians.


Yeah well, that's TV. I haven't watched an episode of TV in about 7 years. This is about movies.


Oooooooo....you just got your meat cut son.

No tv in 7 years?...pussy.


Let's try to avoid personal attacks. They serve no purpose and are beneath us

_________________
I'm lithe and fierce as a tiger


Mon Dec 16, 2013 12:09 am
Profile
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 33 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group.
Designed by Vjacheslav Trushkin for Free Forum/DivisionCore.
Translated by Xaphos © 2007, 2008, 2009 phpBB.fr