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General Movie News 
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Post Re: General Movie News
Vexer wrote:
NotHughGrant wrote:
What about the $30 or so million dollars he spent buying silence?

He wasn't "buying silence", a settlement is NOT automatically an admission of guilt.


What was he doing then?

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Sat Apr 19, 2014 7:15 pm
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Post Re: General Movie News
NotHughGrant wrote:
Vexer wrote:
NotHughGrant wrote:
What about the $30 or so million dollars he spent buying silence?

He wasn't "buying silence", a settlement is NOT automatically an admission of guilt.


What was he doing then?

You mean what was he doing with the kids at his ranch? Nothing illegal that's for sure, just normal kid stuff(and yes I will admit him sleeping in the same room as the kids is kind of weird and I can understand some people being uncomfortable at that idea, but that alone isn't reason enough to prove he's guilty).


Sat Apr 19, 2014 7:47 pm
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Post Re: General Movie News
No, what was he doing paying them off?

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Sat Apr 19, 2014 7:52 pm
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Post Re: General Movie News
I'm going to throw my name in as someone who has doubted whether Michael Jackson was guilty. It is worth noting that both of his accusers identified him as circumcised. Jackson's autopsy report reveals that he was not circumcised. This is a pretty big (pardon the pun) contradiction. There are other contradictions; in one interview Chandler says he saw Jackson's genitals. In another, he says he hadn't. The police also never filed criminal charges, which I think is notable. Also, it was not Jackson himself, but the company that insured MJJ Productions that paid the settlement. Documents released over the years have shown that Jackson and his lawyers did not want to settle, but the insurance company offered the Chandlers a settlement, they took it, and the matter went away. The whole business was fishy.

As for the second time, I'm convinced Jackson was innocent. I read a lot of the testimony, and the whole case doesn't add up. The prosecution's witnesses contradicted each other on numerous occasions, and none of the supposed incidents of molestation were strongly corroborated by evidence. Point is, while Jackson was a weird guy, it doesn't make him a criminal. While he was foolish to hang around with kids at all after the first series of accusations, it doesn't mean he was guilty.

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Sat Apr 19, 2014 7:53 pm
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Post Re: General Movie News
I think everyone is innocent - OJ Simpson, Lee Harvey Oswald, Guy Fawkes.

Like Andy said in The Shawshank Redemption, "don't you know, everyone is innocent in here" ... only i take "in here" to mean the whole world

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Sat Apr 19, 2014 8:01 pm
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Post Re: General Movie News
NotHughGrant wrote:
I think everyone is innocent - OJ Simpson, Lee Harvey Oswald, Guy Fawkes.

Like Andy said in The Shawshank Redemption, "don't you know, everyone is innocent in here" ... only i take "in here" to mean the whole world

And that has to do with what exactly? :?


Sat Apr 19, 2014 8:08 pm
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Post Re: General Movie News
NotHughGrant wrote:
No, what was he doing paying them off?

He wasn't "paying them off", like I said before, a settlement in itself is NOT an admission of guilt.

The settlement agreement specifically stated that Jackson admitted no wrongdoing and no liability. The decision to make a settlement came largely because of Jackson's medical issues at the time, his close friends believed that his health had deteriorated to the point where he could not endure a lengthy trial.

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I'm going to throw my name in as someone who has doubted whether Michael Jackson was guilty. It is worth noting that both of his accusers identified him as circumcised. Jackson's autopsy report reveals that he was not circumcised. This is a pretty big (pardon the pun) contradiction. There are other contradictions; in one interview Chandler says he saw Jackson's genitals. In another, he says he hadn't. The police also never filed criminal charges, which I think is notable. Also, it was not Jackson himself, but the company that insured MJJ Productions that paid the settlement. Documents released over the years have shown that Jackson and his lawyers did not want to settle, but the insurance company offered the Chandlers a settlement, they took it, and the matter went away. The whole business was fishy.

As for the second time, I'm convinced Jackson was innocent. I read a lot of the testimony, and the whole case doesn't add up. The prosecution's witnesses contradicted each other on numerous occasions, and none of the supposed incidents of molestation were strongly corroborated by evidence. Point is, while Jackson was a weird guy, it doesn't make him a criminal. While he was foolish to hang around with kids at all after the first series of accusations, it doesn't mean he was guilty.


Thank you, nice to see i'm not the only on here who believes Jackson was innocent.


Sat Apr 19, 2014 8:14 pm
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Post Re: General Movie News
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He wasn't "paying them off", like I said before, a settlement in itself is NOT an admission of guilt.


It kind of is

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Sun Apr 20, 2014 3:35 am
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Post Re: General Movie News
NotHughGrant wrote:
Quote:
He wasn't "paying them off", like I said before, a settlement in itself is NOT an admission of guilt.


It kind of is

No it isn't.

Maybe you're not familiar with U.S. law- but over here, a settlement is NOT automatically an admission of any kind of guilt, the specific writing in MJ's settlement is that he did not admit to any wrongdoing.


Sun Apr 20, 2014 3:39 am
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Post Re: General Movie News
Vexer wrote:
NotHughGrant wrote:
Quote:
He wasn't "paying them off", like I said before, a settlement in itself is NOT an admission of guilt.


It kind of is

No it isn't.

Maybe you're not familiar with U.S. law- but over here, a settlement is NOT automatically an admission of any kind of guilt, the specific writing in MJ's settlement is that he did not admit to any wrongdoing.


A settlement isn't automatically an admission of guilt anywhere. Just a strong indicator

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Sun Apr 20, 2014 3:50 am
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Post Re: General Movie News
A settlement dosen't necessarily "indicate" anything.


Sun Apr 20, 2014 4:59 am
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Post Re: General Movie News
Jesus H, Vexoid!

You're being rather difficult to debate with here

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Sun Apr 20, 2014 10:34 am
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Post Re: General Movie News
NotHughGrant wrote:
Jesus H, Vexoid!

You're being rather difficult to debate with here

All i'm saying is that a settlement in itself does not always equate to or even "strongly indicate" guilt, don't really see how that's being "difficult" :?


Sun Apr 20, 2014 12:45 pm
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Post Re: General Movie News
Vexer wrote:
The decision to make a settlement came largely because of Jackson's medical issues at the time, his close friends believed that his health had deteriorated to the point where he could not endure a lengthy trial.


His close friends didn't agree to the settlement. He made the decision. The money meant nothing to him, clearly, but if it were me, I'd never settle if I was innocent, simply on principle. People will quite understandably at least question things once you agree to settle.

NotHughGrant wrote:
Jesus H, Vexoid!

You're being rather difficult to debate with here


He can't be debated -- he's already stated that he knows, in the Jackson case and in the Singer one, that nothing illegal occurred. Silly us having our opinions when someone around here knows what happened.


Sun Apr 20, 2014 4:04 pm
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Post Re: General Movie News
It's easy for someone who's never been accused of a crime to say they'd never settle, but you don't know for sure that you wouldn't until you're actually put in that position. Jackson only settled because his medical issues would've made it very difficult for him to handle a long trial.

Silly me for doubting the validity of those accusations.


Sun Apr 20, 2014 8:10 pm
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Post Re: General Movie News
Vexer wrote:
It's easy for someone who's never been accused of a crime to say they'd never settle, but you don't know for sure that you wouldn't until you're actually put in that position. Jackson only settled because his medical issues would've made it very difficult for him to handle a long trial.


The contradiction between these two is really something.


Sun Apr 20, 2014 8:54 pm
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Post Re: General Movie News
peng wrote:
Vexer wrote:
It's easy for someone who's never been accused of a crime to say they'd never settle, but you don't know for sure that you wouldn't until you're actually put in that position. Jackson only settled because his medical issues would've made it very difficult for him to handle a long trial.


The contradiction between these two is really something.

How is there a contradiction exactly? :?


Sun Apr 20, 2014 9:06 pm
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Post Re: General Movie News
Vexer wrote:
It's easy for someone who's never been accused of a crime to say they'd never settle, but you don't know for sure that you wouldn't until you're actually put in that position.


Yes, I do. You don't know me or my principles. If I did nothing wrong, I'd never settle, pay, whatever. I don't need to be facing a sex abuse accusation to know that. If you do, that's fine -- but please don't speak for me.

Quote:
Silly me for doubting the validity of those accusations


I haven't seen you express doubt about the accusations. You've said that in both cases (Singer and Jackson) you know that they did nothing wrong. That's not doubt -- doubt means that you aren't sure. You've said you're sure.

Vexer wrote:
How is there a contradiction exactly? :?


You said that you know that I don't know what I'd do if facing the situation. You said that you know that Jackson settled for medical reasons. What you're saying -- and I'm not twisting your words at all here -- is that you know me better than I know myself and that you also know exactly what went on in the Michael Jackson case. Neither are true.


Sun Apr 20, 2014 9:41 pm
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Post Re: General Movie News
I don't know if Michael Jackson is innocent or guilty just like I don't know if Woody Allen is innocent or guilty and just like I don't know if Bryan Singer is innocent or guilty. But Shade, my man, I do think you are being a little naive to say that you would never settle. You are so intensely scrutinized during a trial that it takes a strong person just to get through one. I can't say for sure if I would never settle since I don't know what it's like to go through that kind of scrutiny. I'd like to think that I'd be strong enough to go to trial, but you never really know. Hopefully, you and I will never have to find out.


Sun Apr 20, 2014 11:11 pm
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Post Re: General Movie News
ilovemovies wrote:
I don't know if Michael Jackson is innocent or guilty just like I don't know if Woody Allen is innocent or guilty and just like I don't know if Bryan Singer is innocent or guilty. But Shade, my man, I do think you are being a little naive to say that you would never settle. You are so intensely scrutinized during a trial that it takes a strong person just to get through one. I can't say for sure if I would never settle since I don't know what it's like to go through that kind of scrutiny. I'd like to think that I'd be strong enough to go to trial, but you never really know. Hopefully, you and I will never have to find out.

That's exactly what I was trying to say.

Shade-I never remotely suggested that I know you better then you know yourself. But you're not psychic either, you can't perfectly predict every single action that you will take over the course of your entire life, you never know when you might find yourself in a situation where you pretty much have no choice but to settle in order to avoid a gruelling trial or something like that. Though for your sake I hope that never happens.


Mon Apr 21, 2014 1:07 am
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