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General Movie News 
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Post Re: General Movie News
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NotHughGrant, could you explain why you think that the quantity of movies in any particular genre and the quality of these movies are "intimately entwined"? I don't think that there is that much of a relation.


Because any superhero movie with the right, recognisable faces will make a cast-iron box office profit. And this dictates the quantity that they can be made in, and also puts downward pressure on how good they need to be to succeed.

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I think that you may have misunderstood my comparison to the Bond movie franchise. The argument on this board was, in short: "There are a lot of superhero (etc.) movies, they are all commercial and formulaic and that's a bad thing. Do we really need more of them?" My (tongue in cheek) counterpoint is: "There are a lot of James Bond movies (albeit not at the same time), they are all commercial and formulaic. Isn't that a bad thing as well and do we really need more of them?" Saying "Bond is an institution" doesn't really address this, because I can also make the point that comic book superheroes are an essential part of 20th century American/ Western pop culture and, hence, must be represented in the movies, too.


Yes I know. But for reasons that aren't entirely tangible, Bond isn't quite the same as the conveyor belt of superhero/historical/disaster stuff that gets pumped out en-masse these days.

I think the risk-averse nature of commercially mainstream cinema is beginning to eat itself. If we say an at-the-moment untitled project needs to make £200 million to make the desired profit; execs and their accountants will (probably quite correctly) forecast that a recognisable brand to piggyback onto will give them a not insignificant % head-start.

18 months ago, people were saying that Batman won't be on screen again for a generation, now Ben Affleck is playing him within the next 2 years!! The Ben Affleck - the one who was going out with JLo, and they did that movie Gigli were she was a smut talking lesbian who slept with men. Mr Ben Affleck himself. And didn't he publicly pitch his own casting too?? The cheeky, high-profile bastard!

Needless to say It's not part of a true creative process. It's the opposite in fact. I don't believe for a minute that an independently-minded screenwriter would voluntarily re-spin the same stuff again and again if given any degree of creative control. Pretty much the same goes for disaster epics too. Recognisable tropes hammered into the viewers' skulls. Brad Pitt aged 50 in World War Z. Russell Crowe aged almost 50 as Robin Hood. Crazy! And now what, Noah's Ark? I thought that was satire when I first read about it.


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Arguing about the longevity of either doesn't really get us anywhere, too. Superheroes have been around much longer than Her Majesty's finest superspy: Adolf Hitler himself was already reeling from Captain America's right hook! Also, don't you think that people might stil be making Batman movies in 50 years time? They've been around since 1966, you know.

You and I both love James Bond movies. Many people do. I also like superhero movies. Many people do, you don't. That's fine. But the existence or ubiquity of either of these genres is not problematic in itself. You simply don't watch a superhero movie but something else instead, which you might enjoy. And for me, there's only a problem if I watch a bad superhero movie, but I'll still enjoy what I think of as a good superhero movie.


Like I say, it's not always the end result I object to. FWIW I naturally avoid nearly all the superhero fodder. I've seen the first Ironman film, but none of the Avengers stuff. So yeah, perhaps I'm a hypocrite for accepting of Bond what I don't of Superhero films. But having said that, I'm the first to say when Bond films go stale. Like the Brosnan-era in its near totality. But despite those films churning the cash out, the franchise still needed a change of course, which alone seems to show more artistic credibility than the industry at large.

An industry that is riding superheroes like a battered old donkey at the seaside.

(sorry, none of this is meant to sound arsy against you. It's just Monday. I'm tired, busy, but still posting here despite that fact)

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Mon Mar 24, 2014 11:45 am
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Post Re: General Movie News
Who cares about all the J-lo stuff or Gigli(which I kinda liked BTW)? That's ancient history. Affleck has since proven himself to be a more then capable actor, he was great in "The Town" and he managed to alleviate the otherwise forgettable "Runner Runner" with his performance, so I think he's more then capable of playing Batman.

When Michael Keaton was first announced to play the role, people reacted pretty much the same way, few people could envision an actor mainly known for comedies to be well-suited for playing such a serious role, but Keaton proved them all wrong, and i'm very confident Affleck will do the same.

Also about World War Z, I don't really see the issue with Pitt's age, and he actually wanted the film to be more true to the original graphic novel, but the execs said it wasn't possible to do a straight adaption of the book, so they had to adapt the part of the book most well-suited to being a movie("The Great Panic").

I would question the adaption of Robin hood not for Crowe's age, but rather for being another pointless and mediocre historical epic that adds nothing new to the character.

I think you should actually see some more superhero films before passing judgement on them(BTW the Brosnan Bond films of some of my favorites since they were my first exposure to the series)


Last edited by Vexer on Mon Mar 24, 2014 2:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.



Mon Mar 24, 2014 2:17 pm
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Post Re: General Movie News
The superhero formula is neither as interesting nor as durable as Bond. Not for movies. Marvel will be undone EVENTUALLY if they get too cocky in that way. DC likely hopes to make Man of Steel a trilogy and that might be that.


Mon Mar 24, 2014 2:35 pm
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Post Re: General Movie News
MGamesCook wrote:
The superhero formula is neither as interesting nor as durable as Bond. Not for movies. Marvel will be undone EVENTUALLY if they get too cocky in that way. DC likely hopes to make Man of Steel a trilogy and that might be that.


Yeah, even though I've enjoyed most of Marvel's movies, I do hope they eventually conclude their Avengers arc properly rather than just pumping them out ad nauseum until they no longer make money or run into a BATMAN & ROBIN/SPIDERMAN 3-sized stinkbomb.

Bond can keep going until the end of time though, since each story is self-contained.

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Mon Mar 24, 2014 2:58 pm
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Post Re: General Movie News
KWRoss wrote:
MGamesCook wrote:
The superhero formula is neither as interesting nor as durable as Bond. Not for movies. Marvel will be undone EVENTUALLY if they get too cocky in that way. DC likely hopes to make Man of Steel a trilogy and that might be that.


Yeah, even though I've enjoyed most of Marvel's movies, I do hope they eventually conclude their Avengers arc properly rather than just pumping them out ad nauseum until they no longer make money or run into a BATMAN & ROBIN/SPIDERMAN 3-sized stinkbomb.

Bond can keep going until the end of time though, since each story is self-contained.

Spiderman 3 actually was quite succesful at the box office and had more positive then negative reviews(63% on RT) so I wouldn't exactly call it a "stink bomb".


Mon Mar 24, 2014 3:49 pm
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Post Re: General Movie News
Vexer wrote:
Spiderman 3 actually was quite succesful at the box office and had more positive then negative reviews(63% on RT) so I wouldn't exactly call it a "stink bomb".


This is where RT can be a little misleading. Spiderman 3 sits at 63% on 243 reviews. Compare that to Man of Steel, which is 56% on 285 reviews. I wish RT would just use the same number of critics for every major release, or at least try to be more consistent. 42 extra reviews allows for a pretty large margin of error. What would happen if you add those 42, or even 30, to the former or subtract from the latter?

Also, while Spiderman 3 made a lot of money, most of that came from the first weekend (http://boxofficemojo.com/movies/?page=w ... erman3.htm). Today, it's widely laughed at; not by everyone, but certainly by a majority of fans. Trust me, the creators of a product don't like being laughed at, regardless of how much money they make.

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Mon Mar 24, 2014 4:07 pm
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Post Re: General Movie News
And what happens when you separate out the legit critics from guy-with-a-website reviews that factor amount of gore and number of boob shots into the final score?

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Mon Mar 24, 2014 5:07 pm
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Post Re: General Movie News
KWRoss wrote:
Vexer wrote:
Spiderman 3 actually was quite succesful at the box office and had more positive then negative reviews(63% on RT) so I wouldn't exactly call it a "stink bomb".


This is where RT can be a little misleading. Spiderman 3 sits at 63% on 243 reviews. Compare that to Man of Steel, which is 56% on 285 reviews. I wish RT would just use the same number of critics for every major release, or at least try to be more consistent. 42 extra reviews allows for a pretty large margin of error. What would happen if you add those 42, or even 30, to the former or subtract from the latter?

Also, while Spiderman 3 made a lot of money, most of that came from the first weekend (http://boxofficemojo.com/movies/?page=w ... erman3.htm). Today, it's widely laughed at; not by everyone, but certainly by a majority of fans. Trust me, the creators of a product don't like being laughed at, regardless of how much money they make.

I wouldn't say it's "widely laughed at" by the majority quite so much.


Mon Mar 24, 2014 5:30 pm
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Post Re: General Movie News
Ken wrote:
And what happens when you separate out the legit critics from guy-with-a-website reviews that factor amount of gore and number of boob shots into the final score?


There's very little actual criticism and analysis for new movies these days. Because in order to truly analyze, you have to discuss all the details, including "spoilers," which is a taboo.


Mon Mar 24, 2014 6:08 pm
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Post Re: General Movie News
Not necessarily. If you're writing the kind of short-form criticism that appears (or used to appear) in the entertainment section of newspapers, I don't see why you can't delve into the filmmaking at least a little bit without blowing any of the substantive plot developments.

If you're doing a longer piece with the same goal, then yeah, dodging spoilers becomes a minefield.

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Mon Mar 24, 2014 7:35 pm
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Post Re: General Movie News
Ken wrote:
And what happens when you separate out the legit critics from guy-with-a-website reviews that factor amount of gore and number of boob shots into the final score?


It's only at 44% from top critics

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Mon Mar 24, 2014 8:11 pm
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Post Re: General Movie News
Ken wrote:
Not necessarily. If you're writing the kind of short-form criticism that appears (or used to appear) in the entertainment section of newspapers, I don't see why you can't delve into the filmmaking at least a little bit without blowing any of the substantive plot developments.

If you're doing a longer piece with the same goal, then yeah, dodging spoilers becomes a minefield.


Almost No one does long pieces anymore. Many of Pauline Kael's reviews were 3x or more longer than anything today.


Mon Mar 24, 2014 8:59 pm
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Post Re: General Movie News
The percentage of how "rotten" a movie is can be misleading, which is why I always look at the average rating score. In this case, Man of Steel and Spider-Man 3 have the same one, 6.2.


Tue Mar 25, 2014 4:25 am
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Post Re: General Movie News
Vexer wrote:
KWRoss wrote:
MGamesCook wrote:
The superhero formula is neither as interesting nor as durable as Bond. Not for movies. Marvel will be undone EVENTUALLY if they get too cocky in that way. DC likely hopes to make Man of Steel a trilogy and that might be that.


Yeah, even though I've enjoyed most of Marvel's movies, I do hope they eventually conclude their Avengers arc properly rather than just pumping them out ad nauseum until they no longer make money or run into a BATMAN & ROBIN/SPIDERMAN 3-sized stinkbomb.

Bond can keep going until the end of time though, since each story is self-contained.

Spiderman 3 actually was quite succesful at the box office and had more positive then negative reviews(63% on RT) so I wouldn't exactly call it a "stink bomb".


Not everyone thinks it was a "stinkbomb". Just those who've watched it.

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Tue Mar 25, 2014 5:24 am
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Post Re: General Movie News
Obviously not everyone, otherwise it wouldn't have a B+ Cinemascore.


Tue Mar 25, 2014 6:00 am
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Post Re: General Movie News
Considering how effusive the praise for Spiderman 2 has been, even a B+ Cinemascore, which is very easy to get A- to A for a blockbuster if it doesn't mess up (regardless of quality), reflects a more muted response.




The first is one of the least Marvel movies for me (I will wait and see with the second one, though it is looking good so far), but this is a pretty cool poster.

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Tue Mar 25, 2014 6:04 am
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Post Re: General Movie News
That is one badass poster. But for my money, nothing beats THIS in ratcheting my anticipation level up to a 10.

XMen: Days of Future Past trailer #2

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Tue Mar 25, 2014 9:53 am
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Post Re: General Movie News
This is looking like to be a great year for comic book movies. Captain America: The Winter's Soldier, The Amazing Spider-Man 2 and X-Men: Days of Future Past all look great. Only Guardians of the Galaxy doesn't look all that good to me.


Tue Mar 25, 2014 12:12 pm
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Post Re: General Movie News
Bring a fucking book, I say. Kid's movies, superhero epics, YA padding... what a time to be alive! Such magic and mystery awaiting all for the price of a ticket.

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Tue Mar 25, 2014 4:51 pm
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Post Re: General Movie News
It's time to smell...lalalalala what The Rock is cooking! Again! First Hercules teaser is here

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4JZhGYrgCPg


Tue Mar 25, 2014 4:54 pm
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