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The thread where we air out unpopular opinions 
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Post Re: The thread where we air out unpopular opinions
H.I. McDonough wrote:


- Steven Spielberg will never be a great 'serious' dramatic filmmaker, as he too often falls back on sentimentality and other emotionally manipulative moments ("Munich" being the exception to the rule).


Schindler's List has an emotionally cathartic (you call it manipulative) moment. Munich doesn't. Schindler's List is a better movie.

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Sun May 12, 2013 5:37 pm
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Post Re: The thread where we air out unpopular opinions
JamesKunz wrote:
Schindler's List has an emotionally cathartic (you call it manipulative) moment. Munich doesn't. Schindler's List is a better movie.

Schindler's List is also a very overrated movie imo. Perhaps my expectations were too high, but I too found it highly manipulative. Didn't work for me at all, and I kept rolling my eyes at the next "Oscar Bait" moment (and there are dozens of them), totally taking me out of the film.


Sun May 12, 2013 6:18 pm
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Post Re: The thread where we air out unpopular opinions
nitrium wrote:
JamesKunz wrote:
Schindler's List has an emotionally cathartic (you call it manipulative) moment. Munich doesn't. Schindler's List is a better movie.

Schindler's List is also a very overrated movie imo. Perhaps my expectations were too high, but I too found it highly manipulative. Didn't work for me at all, and I kept rolling my eyes at the next "Oscar Bait" moment (and there are dozens of them), totally taking me out of the film.


No. If you want to call the moment at the end where Schindler says that he could have saved one more manipulative, I'll give you that (though I think it works, and works well -- a director playing one's emotions is not any more criminal than a director playing one's fears) but before that moment the movie is cold as ice.

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Sun May 12, 2013 6:25 pm
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Post Re: The thread where we air out unpopular opinions
I forgot to mention this one, might be the farthest apart I've ever been with JB......

I loved The Count of Monte Cristo(2002 version with Jim Caviezel and Guy Pearce). Rarely have I rooted harder for the main character to get his revenge than in this movie. It deserved better than being dumped into theaters in January when it was.

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Sun May 12, 2013 8:26 pm
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Post Re: The thread where we air out unpopular opinions
JamesKunz wrote:
No. If you want to call the moment at the end where Schindler says that he could have saved one more manipulative, I'll give you that (though I think it works, and works well -- a director playing one's emotions is not any more criminal than a director playing one's fears) but before that moment the movie is cold as ice.


Yeah. I'm interested as to what nitrium considers the Oscar-bait portions of the film, and what examples of films he feels are great and don't have Oscar-bait elements. It's one thing to think the girl in the red dress or the sniping sequences or other portions just don't work, but it's quite another to say they make the film manipulative.


Sun May 12, 2013 8:28 pm
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Post Re: The thread where we air out unpopular opinions
Never liked Wizard Of Oz in any form.

As for Schindler's List, good movie, but it was a tough sit, so I really have no desire to see it again, I liked Munich better anyways.

I liked Hannibal better then Silence Of The Lambs and thought Julianne Moore was just as good as Jodie Foster.

I quite enjoyed the Matrix sequels.


Sun May 12, 2013 10:36 pm
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Post Re: The thread where we air out unpopular opinions
Shade2 wrote:
Yeah. I'm interested as to what nitrium considers the Oscar-bait portions of the film, and what examples of films he feels are great and don't have Oscar-bait elements. It's one thing to think the girl in the red dress or the sniping sequences or other portions just don't work, but it's quite another to say they make the film manipulative.

Hey this is all about "unpopular opinions", right? ;-) . Look, I haven't seen Schindler's List in 15 odd years, so can't go into detail on the moments that felt Oscar-baity at the time (I should have mentioned that fact in my post). I vividly remember Spielberg piling the (obviously genuine) inhumanity of the holocaust on thick and fast though, and you can't deny that. And every scene that showcases Nazi atrocities against Jews can be viewed as an Oscar-bait moment, when you consider the number of Jewish (or descendants thereof) members of the academy. Well, maybe that's being more than a bit unfair... yes, I know, it's a holocaust film, it's meant to be depressing, and it's only depicting reality. However, not ONLY Jews were treated like animals in WW2 (my own mother for instance). And hey, maybe on a renewed viewing I might even change my mind. I doubt it though.


Mon May 13, 2013 1:39 am
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Post Re: The thread where we air out unpopular opinions
There is no doubt that Spielberg has engaged in some shameless Oscarbation at times, but I see no need to impugn the reputation of Schindler's List. It's an excellent movie. As for charges that it becomes sentimental in the end or tries to downplay the magnitude of the failure of humanity that the Holocaust represents, I will refer to the candle that we see in the first frames of the film. That's what Schindler's List is: a tiny light in the darkness.

Now if you'll excuse me, I'm going to put that last sentence in a Hallmark card and mail it to Stanley Kubrick's beautiful corpse.

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Mon May 13, 2013 1:46 am
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Post Re: The thread where we air out unpopular opinions
nitrium wrote:
Hey this is all about "unpopular opinions", right?


No doubt. Again, I take no issue with you thinking it's not a good movie, but to call it Oscar-bait seems off to me.

nitrium wrote:
And every scene that showcases Nazi atrocities against Jews can be viewed as an Oscar-bait moment, when you consider the number of Jewish (or descendants thereof) members of the academy.


That is awfully insulting toward Jewish people, no? As if simply depicting something that happened to their people makes them dumber and less critical? Seems misguided.

Yes, the subject is inherently heavy, and the film is certainly (and unabashedly) captivating: it's not trying to get you to look away in the way Shoah is, for example. It's a compelling human story told within a huge context.

I guess my point is that I don't understand how it's any more bait-y than any other "serious" film.

My own unpopular opinions!

Reloaded is the best -- by far -- of the Matrix films.

Jack Nicholson hasn't given a worthwhile performance in 30 years.

Nicolas Cage is one of the 5 best actors of his generation.


Mon May 13, 2013 2:02 am
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Post Re: The thread where we air out unpopular opinions
Shade2 wrote:
That is awfully insulting toward Jewish people, no? As if simply depicting something that happened to their people makes them dumber and less critical? Seems misguided.

No offence intended whatsoever, and I'm definitely not trying to insult anyone (apologies if that is the case)! But I posit that there are additional feelings for powerful imagery of atrocities committed against YOUR race, whatever form that takes. To say people generally (not all) aren't racially biased is imo naive. What I'm trying to say is that depictions of atrocities against Jews are going to play more powerfully (emotionally, not morally) towards Jewish people, particularly ancestors (or those that actually experienced it) than non-Jews. That is all I'm saying. The same would be true about a movie highlighting atrocities against the US slaves playing more powerfully for African Americans than for whites. This is I believe also true outside of race. For example a rape scene imo surely plays very differently for women than for men, and differently again if you were an actual victim. To acknowledge this doesn't make one sexist. Similarly, a depiction of child abduction/murder would in most instances play differently for parents than non-parents. You would disagree with this viewpoint, I'm thinking.


Mon May 13, 2013 3:32 am
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Post Re: The thread where we air out unpopular opinions
Vexer -


Quote:
I think Hugh Grant is a one-dimensional and mediocre actor.


Jeez, Vexer, you think this is unpopular?




Anyway -

1. Modern Tarantino is a pale shade of his first 2 films. Evidence, Django Unchained.

2. Leo Di Caprio plays the same character in every film he's in. He's a modern day Cary Grant.

3. Gangs of New York is a mostly laughble film

4. Tom Cruise is a genuinly great actor. But his ego has chewed him up

5. Ridley Scott is a bad film maker

6. Stallone is a bona fida legend of cinema, up there with the all time greats

7. Crank 2 is one of the best films of the last decade

8. Colin Firth has one gear

9. David Fincher is in freefall

10. Avatar was always intened to be self-parody. Possibly

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Mon May 13, 2013 5:10 am
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Post Re: The thread where we air out unpopular opinions
11. Unless you're an existing fan - LOTR can feel like torture

12. District 9 was shite

13. Robocop is one of the smartest (on all levels) films of the past 30 years

14. The King's Speech was surely a satire on American Anglophilia

15. Magic Mike was baaaaad

16. No-one understands Holy Motors and anyone who says otherwise is bullshitting

17. Russell Crowe can't act outside the remit of Gladiator and thugs in general

18. Alien is overrated

19. The Terminator 3 is actually a good film

20. ET nearly bored me to death

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Mon May 13, 2013 5:28 am
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Post Re: The thread where we air out unpopular opinions
NotHughGrant wrote:
1. Modern Tarantino is a pale shade of his first 2 films. Evidence, Django Unchained.

As long as you brought him up, Reservoir Dogs-era Tarantino is a shade of later Tarantino, particularly in the writing. Compared to Pulp Fiction and Jackie Brown, it's amateur hour... which is still good, considering.

We'll give modern Tarantino a little more time before we conclusively decide if he's deteriorated, given that Basterds is a damn strong movie in the midst of all the Kill Bills and Djangos and whatnots.

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Mon May 13, 2013 5:40 am
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Post Re: The thread where we air out unpopular opinions
Basterds has some incredible moments, but for me the sum is less than the parts.

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Mon May 13, 2013 6:58 am
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Post Re: The thread where we air out unpopular opinions
JamesKunz wrote:
No. If you want to call the moment at the end where Schindler says that he could have saved one more manipulative, I'll give you that (though I think it works, and works well -- a director playing one's emotions is not any more criminal than a director playing one's fears) but before that moment the movie is cold as ice.

The scene was spoofed on an episode of Seinfeld. I rest my case. :P

While I do think "Schindler's List" is definitely one of Spielberg's better 'serious' films, "The Pianist" was a much more effective drama in terms of tackling the Holocaust, IMO (or, at least, the events that directly led up to it).


Mon May 13, 2013 9:07 am
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Post Re: The thread where we air out unpopular opinions
21. The English Patient was neither moving nor memorable

22. City of God is a mess and falls apart round about halfway through

23. Ben Affleck can't act

24. Robert De Niro, Samuel L Jackson and Morgan Freeman should be retired from active service

25. Bradley Cooper has the most punchable face in the world

26. Bringing Out the Dead is Scorsese's best film in the past 23 years

27. Vanilla Sky is, on balance, a success

28. Ryan Gosling can't act

29. Ditto Jude Law

30. Get back to you on 30

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Mon May 13, 2013 10:07 am
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Post Re: The thread where we air out unpopular opinions
NotHughGrant wrote:
22. City of God is a mess and falls apart round about halfway through


(meant to be read in voice of Chris from Family Guy)

well I can see that, it lost a little steam when.... WWWWWUUUUUUUUHHHHHHHHHHHHAAAAAAAAAAAAATTTTTTTTTTTTTTT!?!?!?!?!?!?!?

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Mon May 13, 2013 1:24 pm
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Post Re: The thread where we air out unpopular opinions
NotHughGrant wrote:
25. Bradley Cooper has the most punchable face in the world


I give that honor to Michael Douglas, except in Wonder Boys, where I don't have to heart to punch him in that bathrobe.

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Mon May 13, 2013 4:30 pm
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Post Re: The thread where we air out unpopular opinions
Vincent Kartheiser has a profoundly punchable face, and he puts it to good use.

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Mon May 13, 2013 4:43 pm
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Post Re: The thread where we air out unpopular opinions
nitrium wrote:
No offence intended whatsoever, and I'm definitely not trying to insult anyone (apologies if that is the case)! But I posit that there are additional feelings for powerful imagery of atrocities committed against YOUR race, whatever form that takes. To say people generally (not all) aren't racially biased is imo naive. What I'm trying to say is that depictions of atrocities against Jews are going to play more powerfully (emotionally, not morally) towards Jewish people, particularly ancestors (or those that actually experienced it) than non-Jews. That is all I'm saying. The same would be true about a movie highlighting atrocities against the US slaves playing more powerfully for African Americans than for whites. This is I believe also true outside of race. For example a rape scene imo surely plays very differently for women than for men, and differently again if you were an actual victim. To acknowledge this doesn't make one sexist. Similarly, a depiction of child abduction/murder would in most instances play differently for parents than non-parents. You would disagree with this viewpoint, I'm thinking.


I do mostly disagree, but please don't misunderstand: I'm not offended and I'm not calling you a racist or anything else.

I'm certainly not saying that racial bias doesn't exist, because it clearly does and is way more prevalent than many would care to admit. But I don't know that that applies here. Events like the holocaust or genocide in Rwanda or under Pol Pot or anything else is a humanity problem, and I think most people respond emotionally whether or not they have a personal connection. I'll grant that if someone knows an individual personally involved in things like that (for example, a Holocaust survivor) then yes, that might sway their emotions in that direction, but I still don't feel like it would cause someone to be swayed to thinking the film has more artistic value because of that. That's the part that I think comes across a smidge insulting: it can sound as if you're saying that a Jewish person can't be trusted to objectively rate Schindler's List's quality. I don't think you're going that far, but it comes across that way, a little.

Again, I think a personal touch to certain matters can affect things to a degree, but I don't agree with how far you take it. I think men and women respond differently to a depiction of rape, yes, but I don't think that men inherently respond less powerfully.

To be extra clear... I don't find what you're saying offensive. I just disagree. Which is cool, yo! Discussionz.


Mon May 13, 2013 4:45 pm
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