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Ranking the Bonds with the Tiers Strategy 
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Post Re: Ranking the Bonds with the Tiers Strategy
Ken wrote:
Now I'm waiting for Bond 24 with Sarah Jessica Parker as Hairy McTwat.


I think that you might be confused with next Austin Powers film ;-)

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Fri Feb 08, 2013 4:00 am
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Post Re: Ranking the Bonds with the Tiers Strategy
Tier 1 (00 agent)

From Russia with Love
Goldfinger
Casino Royale
Skyfall



Tier 2 (High-level operative)

Dr No
OHMSS
For Your Eyes Only


Tier 3 (Rookie agent)

Live and Let Die
Moonraker
Octopussy
Living Daylights
Licence to Kill
Quantum of Solace

Tier 4 (Mi6 tea-boy)

The rest of Brosnan and Moore


Disclaimer: it's years since i've seen a few of these. List may be bullshit

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Last edited by NotHughGrant on Fri Feb 08, 2013 4:33 am, edited 1 time in total.



Fri Feb 08, 2013 4:24 am
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Post Re: Ranking the Bonds with the Tiers Strategy
I have never ranked the Bond movies in tiers so let me give it a go

Tier 1 - The Must See!
If you encounter a person who for whatever reason has not seen any Bond film then this is the first one to recommend to see :-) The ultimate Bond !
Goldfinger

Tier 2 - The next best of the franchise after Goldfinger
These are what I would call "Classic Bond"
From Rusia with Love
Dr No
Thunderball
On her Majesty Secret Service
Skyfall
Casino Royale
Golden Eye
The Spy Who Loved Me


Tier 3 - Entertaining but not high entertainment as the ones above
These are mediocrities but not as bad to the last tier. It would be good to see at least one of the Dalton ones so you can say that you have seen all the actors that played Bond in action ;-)
Live and Let Die
Tomorrow Never Dies
The World is not enough
You Only Live Twice
Diamonds are forever
Moonraker
For your Eyes Only
* The Living Daylights
* License to Kill
Never Say Never Again



Tier 4 - The ones that you can miss
If you have not seen these ones then you are not missing much. If you are collecting DVDs or Blu Rays and you are short of money then these ones are the one to skip ;-)
Quantum Solace
Die Another Day
Octopussy
The Man with the Golden Gun
A View to a Kill


Cheers

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Last edited by unwindfilms on Sat Feb 09, 2013 6:57 pm, edited 2 times in total.



Fri Feb 08, 2013 4:33 am
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Post Re: Ranking the Bonds with the Tiers Strategy
No every movie critic likes Thunderball. In Rotten Tomatoes is 85% fresh (6 critics did not like it out 39)
In IMDB has a score of 7.0 ( 50,141 voters)

Is not the number 1 Bond movie in any list but in many lists ranks among top 10. For example

Peter Travers (Rolling Stone): 9
007James: 9
MSN Movie Guide : 5

James Berardinelli gave 3 stars to Thunderball so even I could not find a rank list I think that I can safely assume that it is in his top half (somewhere under his top 5 thou)

So I conclude that even is not impossible for someone to place Thunderball near the bottom among all the Bond films (Kunz has proved so, Jack agrees that it is a bad movie even he has not seen all) , it is certainly not the common case :-)

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Fri Feb 08, 2013 5:09 am
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Post Re: Ranking the Bonds with the Tiers Strategy
NotHughGrant wrote:
(snip)

For a second, I was thinking that you lifted your categories from the GoldenEye video game... but then I got to MI-6 tea boy and now I find myself suspecting otherwise.

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Fri Feb 08, 2013 5:38 am
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Post Re: Ranking the Bonds with the Tiers Strategy
Haha. I bought it for the Wii a year ago and put it on yesterday for the first time before realising age is robbing me of my spacial awareness.

I did start off using those definitions but forgot what they all were. But "tea-boy" is apt IMO

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Fri Feb 08, 2013 5:59 am
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Post Re: Ranking the Bonds with the Tiers Strategy
It's been so long since I've seen some of the older Bond films that I'm not even going to try and rank them. I will say that I think that On Her Majesty's Secret Service was an excellent Bond movie and has generally been badly under-rated (though not here; most posters in this thread seem to rate it in the upper half of the franchise, most well up in the upper half). My least favorite I'd say was A View to a Kill; whereas most of the Roger Moore Bonds could at least be enjoyed as silly, fun camp, this one combined the goofiness we'd come to expect with a certain mean-spiritedness that made a very unenjoyable mix. Plus it had the worst Bond girl of all time.


Fri Feb 08, 2013 11:46 pm
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Post Re: Ranking the Bonds with the Tiers Strategy
Almost all the Bonds are very rewatchable imo, except the Brosnan ones & Quantum of Solace(which doesn't seem like a Bond in anyway)

I feel sorry for those(& it seems to apply to many in this thread) whose first exposure to Bond was Brosnan. All completely charmless & forgettable imo. he became just another action hero. Can't believe how successful they are(and that his Bond basically saved the franchise, Bond was fading in the box office by the end of the 80s, if Goldeneye tanked after a 6 year absence, I doubt it could have survived that)

I have to see Skyfall again before ranking. As popular as they are now, I have a feeling the Craig Bonds will not be remembered well 20-30 years from now(if Bond is still around). Taking this character too seriously is just as extreme as getting too cartoonish. I wonder what my Dad would think of this Bond(saw my first Bond - Octopussy - with him and it blew my little mind)

have probably seen every Bond from Dr. No to License to Kill 4-5 times each(the airings of Bond films on network tv still was a bid deal in the 80s, many of the viewings were then)

Tier 1
From Russia With Love
Goldfinger
Casino Royale
The Spy Who Loved Me

Tier 2
Dr. No.
Thunderball
On Her Majesty's Secret Service

Tier 3
Octopussy
The Living Daylights
License To Kill

Tier 4
You Only Live Twice
Moonraker
For Your Eyes Only

Tier 5
Live And Let Die
Man With The Golden Gun
A View To A Kill

Tier 6
Diamonds Are Forever
Goldeneye
Tomorrow Never Dies
The World Is Not Enough
Die Another Day
Quantum Of Solace


Mon Feb 11, 2013 9:47 pm
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Post Re: Ranking the Bonds with the Tiers Strategy
Nothing wrong with Brosnan IMO, I always thought he was better then Roger Moore, who at times got way too over-the-top for me.


Mon Feb 11, 2013 10:52 pm
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Post Re: Ranking the Bonds with the Tiers Strategy
Vexer wrote:
Nothing wrong with Brosnan IMO, I always thought he was better then Roger Moore, who at times got way too over-the-top for me.


I feel like Roger Moore is a major reason why we have Taken, Die Hard 5, Bullet to the Head, maybe even MI4 to an extent; he gave life to the idea that an action hero could be older.

One thing begins to occur to me. Almost all of us here are fluent in Bond lore, and have seen every film at least once. I think this will start to become quite rare with future generations, which to me is a shame. Even the bad ones, you gotta watch them at least once; being fluent in Bond is something to be proud of. With Craig though, I think the series' history starts to become incomprehensibly large. You can't even think about it all at once, and the films themselves become very disparate from each other at times. Even with the uber-convenient bluray packaging, the true Bond connoisseur may become a dying breed.


Mon Feb 11, 2013 11:17 pm
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Post Re: Ranking the Bonds with the Tiers Strategy
MGamesCook wrote:
Vexer wrote:
Nothing wrong with Brosnan IMO, I always thought he was better then Roger Moore, who at times got way too over-the-top for me.


I feel like Roger Moore is a major reason why we have Taken, Die Hard 5, Bullet to the Head, maybe even MI4 to an extent; he gave life to the idea that an action hero could be older.

One thing begins to occur to me. Almost all of us here are fluent in Bond lore, and have seen every film at least once. I think this will start to become quite rare with future generations, which to me is a shame. Even the bad ones, you gotta watch them at least once; being fluent in Bond is something to be proud of. With Craig though, I think the series' history starts to become incomprehensibly large. You can't even think about it all at once, and the films themselves become very disparate from each other at times. Even with the uber-convenient bluray packaging, the true Bond connoisseur may become a dying breed.


Well part of that might be that, in all fairness, 23+ films is a daunting task. I mean, I think the majority of the country doesn't see 23 films in a year

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Mon Feb 11, 2013 11:54 pm
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Post Re: Ranking the Bonds with the Tiers Strategy
Brosnan deserved better scripts. He had the perfect presence and charisma for the role, but his last outings as Bond were pretty bad.

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Post Re: Ranking the Bonds with the Tiers Strategy
JamesKunz wrote:
MGamesCook wrote:
Vexer wrote:
Nothing wrong with Brosnan IMO, I always thought he was better then Roger Moore, who at times got way too over-the-top for me.


I feel like Roger Moore is a major reason why we have Taken, Die Hard 5, Bullet to the Head, maybe even MI4 to an extent; he gave life to the idea that an action hero could be older.

One thing begins to occur to me. Almost all of us here are fluent in Bond lore, and have seen every film at least once. I think this will start to become quite rare with future generations, which to me is a shame. Even the bad ones, you gotta watch them at least once; being fluent in Bond is something to be proud of. With Craig though, I think the series' history starts to become incomprehensibly large. You can't even think about it all at once, and the films themselves become very disparate from each other at times. Even with the uber-convenient bluray packaging, the true Bond connoisseur may become a dying breed.


Well part of that might be that, in all fairness, 23+ films is a daunting task. I mean, I think the majority of the country doesn't see 23 films in a year

I think Moore got better in the 80s, I nearly gave up on him after Golden Gun and Live And Let Die, Brosnan never sunk as low as those two films IMO.


Tue Feb 12, 2013 12:49 am
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Post Re: Ranking the Bonds with the Tiers Strategy
Brosnan did 4 films and the problem for me is that the last 3 are all but indistinguishable in my mind's eye.

Brosnan was a reasonable choice for Bond. Following the Moore template he was perfect to drag the franchise back away from Dalton's darker and more realistic tone (I actually like Dalton).

In essence Brosnan is like a Moore 2.0. Obviously younger, more handsome and in a less cheesy way. And a marginally (although not greatly) superior actor. The problem for me is that the Moore formula was exausted and beyond mere tampering... it needed to be binned completely. Hence the success of Craig. Colder, more brutal, more genuinly intelligent, less handsome in the conventional sense but manages to use this to his advantage. Perhaps, some day, the pendulum will swing back and we'll have Justin Beiber playing Bond. Who knows?

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Tue Feb 12, 2013 6:50 am
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Post Re: Ranking the Bonds with the Tiers Strategy
Thief12 wrote:
Brosnan deserved better scripts. He had the perfect presence and charisma for the role, but his last outings as Bond were pretty bad.

"The World Is Not Enough" had one of the all-time worst heroines, and "Die Another Day" definitely started steering the series back into Moore territory. I still feel he's the only other Bond actor to even come close to Connery's perfect balance of humor and seriousness. And, yeah, his (and Dalton's) tenure(s) was(/were) definitely squandered.


Tue Feb 12, 2013 7:55 am
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Post Re: Ranking the Bonds with the Tiers Strategy
Thief12 wrote:
Brosnan deserved better scripts. He had the perfect presence and charisma for the role, but his last outings as Bond were pretty bad.


Moore's tenure was also affected by weak scripts. Moonraker is one where you could do a little re-writing here and there and you'd have another Austin Powers movie. Same with Man WIth The Golden Gun.

Brosnan's first two efforts were his best. The World Is Not Enough had an intriguing premise. But Denise Richards and overlong were its undoing. Die Another Day started out darker. But soon devolved into cartoonish territory. It would take Casino Royale to succeed where Die Another Day failed.

NotHughGrant wrote:
Brosnan was a reasonable choice for Bond. Following the Moore template he was perfect to drag the franchise back away from Dalton's darker and more realistic tone (I actually like Dalton).


While I liked Dalton a great deal, I can understand why he didn't work for much of the general public. In some ways his turn into darker territory may have been a little too much for those who had gotten used to the lightweight Moore.

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Post Re: Ranking the Bonds with the Tiers Strategy
Jeff Wilder wrote:
Thief12 wrote:
Brosnan deserved better scripts. He had the perfect presence and charisma for the role, but his last outings as Bond were pretty bad.


Moore's tenure was also affected by weak scripts. Moonraker is one where you could do a little re-writing here and there and you'd have another Austin Powers movie. Same with Man WIth The Golden Gun.

Brosnan's first two efforts were his best. The World Is Not Enough had an intriguing premise. But Denise Richards and overlong were its undoing. Die Another Day started out darker. But soon devolved into cartoonish territory. It would take Casino Royale to succeed where Die Another Day failed.

NotHughGrant wrote:
Brosnan was a reasonable choice for Bond. Following the Moore template he was perfect to drag the franchise back away from Dalton's darker and more realistic tone (I actually like Dalton).


While I liked Dalton a great deal, I can understand why he didn't work for much of the general public. In some ways his turn into darker territory may have been a little too much for those who had gotten used to the lightweight Moore.


Yeah, but that's my point. It has more to do with scripts and trends than it has to do with the actor. And in the realm of 80's cheesiness, I think Moore films kinda worked more or less for that time. But then people started walking away from that tone. Perhaps the Dalton ones were too soon for such a shift. Maybe that's why they seem to be more appreciated nowadays, just like the Moore ones aren't as much. Now in the late 90s and early 00's with Brosnan, to revert the franchise to the silliness of the 80s was too much. If Brosnan had been given the same scripts Craig had, or at least the same level of maturity, maybe he would've worked as well.

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Tue Feb 12, 2013 1:42 pm
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Post Re: Ranking the Bonds with the Tiers Strategy
With Brosnan, the series lost its novelistic aspect. The Moore films all tell stories - sometimes pretty bad and stupid stories - but on average, more narratively grounded than the Brosnans. The shooting style of the Brosnans is also frustrating they have a pretty generic studio vibe to them, which only became appealing finally with Casino Royale. Now with Skyfall, it's back to a looser, livelier style that we haven't seen a trace of since LTK.


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Post Re: Ranking the Bonds with the Tiers Strategy
MGamesCook wrote:
With Brosnan, the series lost its novelistic aspect. The Moore films all tell stories - sometimes pretty bad and stupid stories - but on average, more narratively grounded than the Brosnans. The shooting style of the Brosnans is also frustrating they have a pretty generic studio vibe to them, which only became appealing finally with Casino Royale. Now with Skyfall, it's back to a looser, livelier style that we haven't seen a trace of since LTK.


I really hope that the next Bond outing has a supervillain, a beginning, middle, and ending, and a gadget or two. With the ingredients they've set up (Ralph Fiennes as M, STOP MY PANTING HEART) I would love to see a "traditional" Bond story

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Tue Feb 12, 2013 6:18 pm
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Post Re: Ranking the Bonds with the Tiers Strategy
Which Bond films are "traditional"? The ones that built the formula? The ones that typify the formula? The ones that cling to the formula like a dingleberry?

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