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Hard R action on life support? 
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Gaffer

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Post Hard R action on life support?
I ran into this piece on the box office performance of DREDD 3D:

C'MON HOLLYWOOD: WHAT DOES THE FAILURE OF DREDD TELL US?

From the poor performance the author concludes that R-rated movies are basically dead in the water financially. I hope this isn't true, because George Lucas is a warning to all directors about what can happen if you keep targeting kids instead of adults.

But I don't think the new Dredd movie is a good showcase, because it's a remake, and that killed 90% of my desire to go see it. I'm sure this is true for lots of people.

I'm also pretty sure the market is oversaturated when it comes to comic-based movies.


Sun Dec 30, 2012 5:41 pm
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Post Re: Hard R action on life support?
If you'd actually seen the film, you'd know that it wasn't a remake of the Stallone abortion. As for R-rated action, I'm thinking that films like Django Unchained will show that they are not in fact in trouble of dying out. The main issue with Dredd 3D was likely a lack of marketing, because it was a good film and one that critics liked.

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Sun Dec 30, 2012 5:59 pm
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Gaffer

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Post Re: Hard R action on life support?
Ragnarok73 wrote:
If you'd actually seen the film, you'd know that it wasn't a remake of the Stallone abortion.

Ah, yes, if I'd seen it I'd know that my reason for not seeing it was in fact invalid.

The makers should have thought of something to get around that problem.


Sun Dec 30, 2012 6:52 pm
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Post Re: Hard R action on life support?
iljitsch wrote:
Ragnarok73 wrote:
If you'd actually seen the film, you'd know that it wasn't a remake of the Stallone abortion.

Ah, yes, if I'd seen it I'd know that my reason for not seeing it was in fact invalid.

The makers should have thought of something to get around that problem.


I wonder how many people who saw it (or didn't see) were aware of the Stallone film. It's rather old, didn't have much impact on release, and certainly hasn't been a "cult classic" that everyone MUST see on video. I saw Dredd and I saw Judge Dredd....I'd largely forgotten about the latter film and will probably do so with the former 15 years from now.


Sun Dec 30, 2012 7:08 pm
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Post Re: Hard R action on life support?
I think Joblo is jumping the gun a bit, Dredd's failure arguably had more to do with the whole 3-D aspect then anything else, the 3-D in the film was at best superfluous and not worth the surcharge. The main issue is that unlike most 3-D movies, Dredd did not have a 2-D version in most theaters, so you were essentially forced to pay a surcharge if you wanted to see this film at all, which pissed some people off to the point where they had no desire to see it at all, especially those who are getting sick and tired of 3-D. Had the film been made solely in 2-D(or at least had more 2-D screenings), I think it would've made more money, or at least it wouldn't have flopped so bad.

I don't think hard R action films are going away though, Expendables 2 did pretty well, and both Arnie and Stallone have action vehicles coming out soon. Hopefully Last Stand and Bullet In The Head will fare better then Dredd did at the box office.


Sun Dec 30, 2012 7:45 pm
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Post Re: Hard R action on life support?
Vexer wrote:
The main issue is that unlike most 3-D movies, Dredd did not have a 2-D version in most theaters, so you were essentially forced to pay a surcharge if you wanted to see this film at all, which pissed some people off to the point where they had no desire to see it at all, especially those who are getting sick and tired of 3-D. Had the film been made solely in 2-D(or at least had more 2-D screenings), I think it would've made more money, or at least it wouldn't have flopped so bad.


True dat (as the kids say these days). I went out of my way to find what appeared to be the only theater in my area screening Dredd in 2-D. It was in one of the older movie multi-plexes in my area that never got the hardware upgrades to show 3-D movies. The 8 or so of us in the whole theater on opening night of Dredd had a great time.


Sun Dec 30, 2012 9:15 pm
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Post Re: Hard R action on life support?
iljitsch wrote:
Ragnarok73 wrote:
If you'd actually seen the film, you'd know that it wasn't a remake of the Stallone abortion.

Ah, yes, if I'd seen it I'd know that my reason for not seeing it was in fact invalid.

The makers should have thought of something to get around that problem.

You thought it was a remake of an earlier film. You were wrong. That is your problem, not the that of the makers of the film.

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Sun Dec 30, 2012 10:55 pm
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Post Re: Hard R action on life support?
hello folks,
Dredd cost 45 M and has so far made 36M. This may have more to do with how the film was marketed and distributed. In Ireland I didn't get to see it at all in any cinemas. The dvd is not released until January. Once the dvd is released the numbers may improve.

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Vexer wrote:
I don't think hard R action films are going away though, Expendables 2 did pretty well, and both Arnie and Stallone have action vehicles coming out soon. Hopefully Last Stand and Bullet In The Head will fare better then Dredd did at the box office.


It has so far made 312 M so far for a cost of 100 M. There is a market out there.

Johnny Larue wrote:
I wonder how many people who saw it (or didn't see) were aware of the Stallone film. It's rather old, didn't have much impact on release, and certainly hasn't been a "cult classic" that everyone MUST see on video. I saw Dredd and I saw Judge Dredd....I'd largely forgotten about the latter film and will probably do so with the former 15 years from now.

I am off the opinion that Judge Dredd (comic book character not the Stallone movies character) has a huge pre existing following. If the numbers improve then if there is a sequel, then this franchise may be have longer lasting legs.


Mon Dec 31, 2012 1:37 am
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Post Re: Hard R action on life support?
iljitsch wrote:
From the poor performance the author concludes that R-rated movies are basically dead in the water financially. I hope this isn't true, because George Lucas is a warning to all directors about what can happen if you keep targeting kids instead of adults.

There will be a market for R-rated films for as long as adults coexist in a world with the MPAA's ludicrous ratings system. It might not be the most lucrative rating, but it does tend to be the province of prestige films.

And there is nothing wrong with aiming adventure movies at the "all ages" crowd. There is something wrong with doing so in the form of Jar Jar Binks and the Ewoks.

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Mon Dec 31, 2012 2:03 am
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Post Re: Hard R action on life support?
iljitsch wrote:
From the poor performance the author concludes that R-rated movies are basically dead in the water financially. I hope this isn't true, because George Lucas is a warning to all directors about what can happen if you keep targeting kids instead of adults.


I think that as long as the industry has to make 100 - 200 M movies, then they will need to get a broad an audience as possible. this means that movies that are this expensive will need to be less than R rated. Perhaps the scale of movies need to come down.


Mon Dec 31, 2012 8:43 am
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Gaffer

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Post Re: Hard R action on life support?
Ragnarok73 wrote:
You thought it was a remake of an earlier film. You were wrong. That is your problem, not the that of the makers of the film.

There are plenty of movies (and other diversions) vying for my time, attention and money. So I think it's probably a bigger problem for the makers than for me.

Also "not a remake", but you can't make a movie about the same character with almost the same name and expect people to ignore the fact that there was a previous movie, expectations are going to be carried over.

If nothing else, going back to the same well shows that Hollywood has trouble coming up with something new.

I went to see Cloud Atlas a couple of weeks ago, and at least that was new. 8-)


Mon Dec 31, 2012 8:52 am
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Post Re: Hard R action on life support?
p604 wrote:
iljitsch wrote:
From the poor performance the author concludes that R-rated movies are basically dead in the water financially. I hope this isn't true, because George Lucas is a warning to all directors about what can happen if you keep targeting kids instead of adults.


I think that as long as the industry has to make 100 - 200 M movies, then they will need to get a broad an audience as possible. this means that movies that are this expensive will need to be less than R rated. Perhaps the scale of movies need to come down.

Most R-rated films are made for less then 100 M though, the most expensive R-rated film was Bad Boys 2, and it managed to turn a profit.


Mon Dec 31, 2012 1:08 pm
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Post Re: Hard R action on life support?
hello Vexer,
Vexer wrote:
Most R-rated films are made for less then 100 M though, the most expensive R-rated film was Bad Boys 2, and it managed to turn a profit.

Perhaps as with any film, for it to have a turnover of over 200M, a head lining star is needed. Will Smith was in bad boys, huge profit were achieved. The biggest star in Dredd was Karl Urban, therefore not so good.


Mon Dec 31, 2012 3:57 pm
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Post Re: Hard R action on life support?
p604 wrote:
hello Vexer,
Vexer wrote:
Most R-rated films are made for less then 100 M though, the most expensive R-rated film was Bad Boys 2, and it managed to turn a profit.

Perhaps as with any film, for it to have a turnover of over 200M, a head lining star is needed. Will Smith was in bad boys, huge profit were achieved. The biggest star in Dredd was Karl Urban, therefore not so good.

Agreed, the lack of star power was probably another factor which hurt Dredd, the fact that it was also released in the same week as End Of Watch(which had Jake Gyllenhal)also didn't help, as that film likely took away business from Dredd due to also being rated R.


Mon Dec 31, 2012 4:14 pm
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Post Re: Hard R action on life support?
Hello Vexer,
Vexer wrote:

Agreed, the lack of star power was probably another factor which hurt Dredd, the fact that it was also released in the same week as End Of Watch(which had Jake Gyllenhal)also didn't help, as that film likely took away business from Dredd due to also being rated R.


good point.
I also feel that End Of Watch had far better promotion.
If Dredd had been promoted as well it might have succeeded better.


Mon Dec 31, 2012 4:42 pm
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Post Re: Hard R action on life support?
iljitsch wrote:
There are plenty of movies (and other diversions) vying for my time, attention and money. So I think it's probably a bigger problem for the makers than for me.

Yes, perhaps the studio releasing the film should have found better ways to market it to the LCD.

iljitsch wrote:
Also "not a remake", but you can't make a movie about the same character with almost the same name and expect people to ignore the fact that there was a previous movie, expectations are going to be carried over.

Given how awful the Stallone film was, that should be a factor working in the favor of this year's release.

iljitsch wrote:
If nothing else, going back to the same well shows that Hollywood has trouble coming up with something new.

Given that this has been happening for years, I'm not sure what your point is here.

iljitsch wrote:
I went to see Cloud Atlas a couple of weeks ago, and at least that was new. 8-)

It was new mediocrity.

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Mon Dec 31, 2012 9:02 pm
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