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Watchmen box office drop 
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Post Re: Watchmen box office drop
Leaving Tales of the Black Freighter out of the theatrical release was a necessity.
Watchmen is already teetering on the edge of not being a mainstream movie. If you intercut an animated movie in there you risk alienating even more viewers.

I love Tales of the Black Freighter in the comic, but I think it was the right decision to hold off on including it in the movie until the full director's cut, even if that means we won't see the best version of the movie until it's out on DVD.


Wed Mar 18, 2009 3:37 pm
Post Re: Watchmen box office drop
Trevor wrote:
Leaving Tales of the Black Freighter out of the theatrical release was a necessity.
Watchmen is already teetering on the edge of not being a mainstream movie. If you intercut an animated movie in there you risk alienating even more viewers.

I love Tales of the Black Freighter in the comic, but I think it was the right decision to hold off on including it in the movie until the full director's cut, even if that means we won't see the best version of the movie until it's out on DVD.


Leaving out Tales of the Black Freighter highlights one of the problems with trying to make a theatrical feature film out of Watchmen: not enough time to fully explore the themes that the comic expounded. I'm one of those who feel that a TV mini-series format was pretty much the only way to do the comic any sort of justice.


Wed Mar 18, 2009 4:24 pm
Post Re: Watchmen box office drop
Ragnarok73 wrote:
timgoens wrote:
Ragnarok73 wrote:
Leaving it out of the movie was an unpardonable sin in my book.


I am very curious as to why you think that.


Ok, here's why:
[Reveal] Spoiler:
Simply put: the particular tale in Tales of the Black Freighter being told in Watchmen, "Marooned", is an allegorical parallel to Veidt's own isolation from humanity in his quest to destroy the evils that beset them. The nameless protagonist in the tale sheds his own humanity to fight what he *perceives* to be an evil threat against his home and family. The entire tale was in fact a foreshadowing of Veidt's decision to kill millions in order to bring peace to the world. Near the end of Watchmen, Veidt tells Dr.Manhattan of seeing a dark ship in his dreams (the Black Freighter to which the Tales refers).


Feel free to read the comic (again) and compare the comic-in-comic to Veidt's own journey. Again, it was a terrible decision to leave it out of the movie, IMO, among many.


No it wasn't. Why would I want to read the same story twice but one story has pirates! Also,
[Reveal] Spoiler:
the Mariner needless killing was in vain, Veidt's evil plan actually worked.
. I know it's fine as a stand-alone but I never thought it worked in conjunction with the main story mostly cause I hated the obvious symbolism and I can barely stand allegories unless they're clever which Black Freighter wasn't.


Wed Mar 18, 2009 5:16 pm
Post Re: Watchmen box office drop
Patrick wrote:
No it wasn't. Why would I want to read the same story twice but one story has pirates! Also,
[Reveal] Spoiler:
the Mariner needless killing was in vain, Veidt's evil plan actually worked.
. I know it's fine as a stand-alone but I never thought it worked in conjunction with the main story mostly cause I hated the obvious symbolism and I can barely stand allegories unless they're clever which Black Freighter wasn't.


Here we go again:
[Reveal] Spoiler:
The point of including the Tales was to add the sense of dread to the comic as one made the connection between the fate of the nameless protagonist and Veidt's own journey to monstrosity. This was helped largely by the images presented in the comic, such as the one with Blackbeard holding a sword to the throat of a young boy as his minions loaded the cannons of the Freighter with severed human heads.

The reason that the Tale is in the comic was to provide the reader with the another way of looking at Veidt's actions. Veidt's own explanation of how he arrived at his decision makes the idea of killing millions of people seem almost reasonable to everyone except Rorshach. "Marooned" is there to show the reader how horrific and inhumane Veidt's thinking has truly become when arriving at the decision to go ahead with his plan to "save" humanity.


It's not a good idea to refer to something as "obvious" when you've completely missed the point. Go ahead and read the comic again.


Wed Mar 18, 2009 5:42 pm
Post Re: Watchmen box office drop
Ragnarok73 wrote:
timgoens wrote:
Ragnarok73 wrote:
Leaving it out of the movie was an unpardonable sin in my book.


I am very curious as to why you think that.


Ok, here's why:
[Reveal] Spoiler:
Simply put: the particular tale in Tales of the Black Freighter being told in Watchmen, "Marooned", is an allegorical parallel to Veidt's own isolation from humanity in his quest to destroy the evils that beset them. The nameless protagonist in the tale sheds his own humanity to fight what he *perceives* to be an evil threat against his home and family. The entire tale was in fact a foreshadowing of Veidt's decision to kill millions in order to bring peace to the world. Near the end of Watchmen, Veidt tells Dr.Manhattan of seeing a dark ship in his dreams (the Black Freighter to which the Tales refers).


Feel free to read the comic (again) and compare the comic-in-comic to Veidt's own journey. Again, it was a terrible decision to leave it out of the movie, IMO, among many.


See, I knew you were going to tell me that.

I understand the allegorical nature of The Black Freighter, but it is also very redundant at times. I have read the book at least 6 times, each time, there are moments that strike me as a little too "on the nose." It is very interesting to hear Bernie talk about how things are in the world and it translates to what is happening in the comic, and vice versa I can already imagine L-cuts being used liberally to give us the feeling we had reading the comic.

You then also have the issue of length. I can't imagine how long it took to get the theatrical length hammered down. Add in the 25 mins or so of "Freighter" and you would have to lose other more important story bits that were already truncated as it was.

I think it will be perfect for the DVD release, but not for a theatrical. I can't wait to see it myself, but to call it a sin sounds like hyperbole to me.


Wed Mar 18, 2009 6:36 pm
Post Re: Watchmen box office drop
timgoens wrote:
See, I knew you were going to tell me that.

I understand the allegorical nature of The Black Freighter, but it is also very redundant at times. I have read the book at least 6 times, each time, there are moments that strike me as a little too "on the nose." It is very interesting to hear Bernie talk about how things are in the world and it translates to what is happening in the comic, and vice versa I can already imagine L-cuts being used liberally to give us the feeling we had reading the comic.

You then also have the issue of length. I can't imagine how long it took to get the theatrical length hammered down. Add in the 25 mins or so of "Freighter" and you would have to lose other more important story bits that were already truncated as it was.

I think it will be perfect for the DVD release, but not for a theatrical. I can't wait to see it myself, but to call it a sin sounds like hyperbole to me.


Read my reply to Patrick where I explain why I feel Tales of the Black Freighter wasn't and isn't redundant when put into the rest of Watchmen. It did add an element to the comic (re: dark view of Veidt's action). One could also argue that it also mirrored both the personal journeys of Dr Manhattan and Rorshach.

As for the length: again, I'm among those who feel that Watchmen couldn't be properly done in a single feature film. A television mini-series was pretty much the only way to do the comic any sort of justice.


Wed Mar 18, 2009 9:58 pm
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