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THE OFFICIAL "DARK KNIGHT RISES" REVIEW THREAD 
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Post Re: THE OFFICIAL "DARK KNIGHT RISES" REVIEW THREAD
Violence like that in Aurora is symptomatic of something and I don't think it's so presumptious that the new school of action (of which TDKR is a product) is a symptom of that same set of things. The desires of audiences, the hostility that a negative take on Batman (or any pop culture Holy Grail) can engender, the distance between fantasy violence and a mass shooting -- all things congruent depending on how cynical one's perspective may be. I tend to agree with MGamesCook on much of this subject and believe that, if some care and quality were applied to these ridiculous movies, they'd be mostly rejected. The context for TDKR is obviously now but I'd like to think it would have been considered a catastrophic piece of crap had it been released when audiences weren't numbed by sitcom exposition and incoherent storytelling.

But that's just me, right now. I'm subject to change my mind. MGamesCook has the right idea - start from the drawing board, work at the film with artistic restraint rather than run rampant at the story with a Nolan carte blanche.

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Mon Aug 06, 2012 7:02 pm
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Post Re: THE OFFICIAL "DARK KNIGHT RISES" REVIEW THREAD
Mark III wrote:
Violence like that in Aurora is symptomatic of something and I don't think it's so presumptious that the new school of action (of which TDKR is a product) is a symptom of that same set of things. The desires of audiences, the hostility that a negative take on Batman (or any pop culture Holy Grail) can engender, the distance between fantasy violence and a mass shooting -- all things congruent depending on how cynical one's perspective may be. I tend to agree with MGamesCook on much of this subject and believe that, if some care and quality were applied to these ridiculous movies, they'd be mostly rejected. The context for TDKR is obviously now but I'd like to think it would have been considered a catastrophic piece of crap had it been released when audiences weren't numbed by sitcom exposition and incoherent storytelling.

But that's just me, right now. I'm subject to change my mind. MGamesCook has the right idea - start from the drawing board, work at the film with artistic restraint rather than run rampant at the story with a Nolan carte blanche.

I still think you and Cook are reading far too much into this, I think you're just letting your dislike for Nolan's films impact your overall outlook. I think Nolan's a bit overrated myself but saying that his films influence people into doing violent things is going way too far.


Mon Aug 06, 2012 7:22 pm
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Post Re: THE OFFICIAL "DARK KNIGHT RISES" REVIEW THREAD
Vexer wrote:
Mark III wrote:
Violence like that in Aurora is symptomatic of something and I don't think it's so presumptious that the new school of action (of which TDKR is a product) is a symptom of that same set of things. The desires of audiences, the hostility that a negative take on Batman (or any pop culture Holy Grail) can engender, the distance between fantasy violence and a mass shooting -- all things congruent depending on how cynical one's perspective may be. I tend to agree with MGamesCook on much of this subject and believe that, if some care and quality were applied to these ridiculous movies, they'd be mostly rejected. The context for TDKR is obviously now but I'd like to think it would have been considered a catastrophic piece of crap had it been released when audiences weren't numbed by sitcom exposition and incoherent storytelling.

But that's just me, right now. I'm subject to change my mind. MGamesCook has the right idea - start from the drawing board, work at the film with artistic restraint rather than run rampant at the story with a Nolan carte blanche.

I still think you and Cook are reading far too much into this, I think you're just letting your dislike for Nolan's films impact your overall outlook. I think Nolan's a bit overrated myself but saying that his films influence people into doing violent things is going way too far.


Careful. I never claimed Nolan's films, any one of them, influenced violence. I said, explicitly, that his brand of storytelling and the acceptance of that storytelling was a symptom of something larger. The shootings are another possible symptom. I don't believe the films have the power to incite a mass murder.

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Mon Aug 06, 2012 7:29 pm
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Post Re: THE OFFICIAL "DARK KNIGHT RISES" REVIEW THREAD
I am a believer that movies are capable of reflecting behavior, but they are not capable of instigating behavior.

Movies are not responsible when a sick person becomes so incapable of dealing with his sickness that he must inflict it upon others. If anything, movies get made as a result of those people. Many artists are intrigued by the extremities of human experience and behavior. Often, the artists who suffer those problems themselves use art as a healthy outlet, expunging the characters as fiction instead of living the characters' lives.

The attempted links between movies and violence make a troubling implication. People seem to think that the John Hinckleys and Mark David Chapmans of this world would have been healthy, productive members of society if not for the existence of art and entertainment. It's an absurd idea, but many people accept it readily without thinking too hard about it. The public's understanding of this very serious issue will remain underdeveloped and myopic for as long as this happens.

As tempting as it is to look to the media to find rational causes for an irrational problem, I'm more afraid of what might happen if people started to feel less free to express their destructive impulses through their art. Sooner or later, that stuff is going to come out somehow.


Mon Aug 06, 2012 8:15 pm
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Post Re: THE OFFICIAL "DARK KNIGHT RISES" REVIEW THREAD
My belief is that the art in question reinforces some of these nascent sociopathic impulses, at worst. More likely is that, as Ken wrote, the art is more a reflection of certain impulses be they theoretical or further advanced.

I'm not as generous as Ken in believing that art offers the outlet that real violence might. Not given the inertia of so much of the audience.

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Mon Aug 06, 2012 9:00 pm
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Post Re: THE OFFICIAL "DARK KNIGHT RISES" REVIEW THREAD
I don't mean to say that art is going to have a transformative effect upon the entire audience. It has a pretty good chance of doing so for the artist, and if there is a troubled individual in the audience--even just one--who experiences the art and is able to reach some kind of an understanding of his issues that he wouldn't have otherwise, then the art has done its job. Maybe nobody else will have that level of personal connection to it, but it can be the candle in the dark for someone who needs it.

I wonder how many people saw themselves characters like Holden Caulfield or Raskolnikov or Travis Bickle and didn't do something terrible. I'm certain that such a stark reflection of that mentality has the ability to stop someone at the brink, to force them to consider themselves before they go too far. Sure, it won't stop some people, but I think some people won't be stopped by anything. They lack the capacity for self-examination that art tries to nurture.


Mon Aug 06, 2012 10:03 pm
Post Re: THE OFFICIAL "DARK KNIGHT RISES" REVIEW THREAD
MGamesCook wrote:
Quote:
So tell me, how would one go about blaming the media for the killings?


I don't care. What I care about is how shitty blockbusters have been lately, and how lazy all the action (and therefore the violence) has been. I want to see better movies and more creative direction, and constraining certain aspects of production could help with that.


That's a completely different discussion then. And one I agree with you to a certain extent. What I mean is that I think the rise of a blockbusters/decline of cinema as art is a problem but one that is generally overstated.
-Jeremy


Mon Aug 06, 2012 11:19 pm
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Post Re: THE OFFICIAL "DARK KNIGHT RISES" REVIEW THREAD
The following brief exchange from Barton Fink comes to mind:

Quote:
Audrey: Barton, empathy requires... understanding.
Barton: What. What don't I understand?


I like that Caulfield, Raskolnikov and Travis Bickle came up and agree that, in the right hands, a willing audience can find little mirrors of themselves in troubled characters. That's arguably what's supposed to happen. If someone is able to find solace in one of the characters or in one of the many situations in The Dark Knight Rises, fantastic. I don't believe TDRK is intended to nurture or give voice to any sort of discontent; emotionally, philosophically or otherwise. That doesn't mean it's not impossible. If the movie communicates to the audience well, I believe it's because the audience is putting the work in and letting Nolan take the credit. The film seemed to deliver exactly what people expected. That's my concern.

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Mon Aug 06, 2012 11:22 pm
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Post Re: THE OFFICIAL "DARK KNIGHT RISES" REVIEW THREAD
All I have to say to that is that movies are meaningless unless there is an audience to make meaning. Both the material and what the audience brings in come together to form the experience. This is true for every movie. To say that a person who is deeply touched by a Christopher Nolan movie is doing much of the work himself is not a slight against Christopher Nolan.

I do think there are other directors who bring a lot more to the table on their end, but really, if someone watches Taxi Driver and feels nothing, but watches Batman and has a profound emotional experience, is that person wrong? Maybe woefully undeveloped as a moviegoer, but wrong?


Mon Aug 06, 2012 11:29 pm
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Post Re: THE OFFICIAL "DARK KNIGHT RISES" REVIEW THREAD
thered47 wrote:

MGamesCook, a serious conversation about what? How there has never been a link established, in spite of every sociologist and their mother looking for one? Do you know who the Bloody Benders were? They were serial killers from Kansas who committed a series of brutal murders in the period of 1871-1873. When they exhumed the bodies one was of a young girl who might have been buried alive.

Obviously this was well before cinema, television, internet, video games, comic books, radio, rap music, not to mention, the vast majority of the population was practically illiterate. So tell me, how would one go about blaming the media for the killings? Time travel?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bloody_Benders

-Jeremy


Well quite.

You'd guess by reading some of the handwringing dross on this thread that the world wasn't violent at all before devoted film geek Chris Nolan began his "nihilistic" Batman franchise.

It's like holding Fay Wray responsible for the rise of National Socialism.

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Tue Aug 07, 2012 4:33 am
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Post Re: THE OFFICIAL "DARK KNIGHT RISES" REVIEW THREAD
Attachment:
2878577349_87e7bb7f5f_z-2.jpg
2878577349_87e7bb7f5f_z-2.jpg [ 18.51 KiB | Viewed 893 times ]


Let's not martyr Chris Nolan, consider the bigger frying fish.

Quote:
I do think there are other directors who bring a lot more to the table on their end, but really, if someone watches Taxi Driver and feels nothing, but watches Batman and has a profound emotional experience, is that person wrong? Maybe woefully undeveloped as a moviegoer, but wrong?


Not at all.

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Tue Aug 07, 2012 5:41 am
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Post Re: THE OFFICIAL "DARK KNIGHT RISES" REVIEW THREAD
Haha cheers for the pic!!

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Tue Aug 07, 2012 6:25 am
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Post Re: THE OFFICIAL "DARK KNIGHT RISES" REVIEW THREAD
Apparently David Cronenberg didn't like the Dark Knight Rises.

http://movies.yahoo.com/blogs/movie-tal ... 27382.html


Thu Aug 16, 2012 3:48 pm
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Post Re: THE OFFICIAL "DARK KNIGHT RISES" REVIEW THREAD
^his comments seem a lot less harsher in this article(yahoo took them out of context a bit, or out of the order he said them in)

from THR

Quote:
The veteran filmmaker is out promoting his Robert Pattinson-starring Cosmopolis, which concerns a day in the life of a nihilistic financial wunderkind, and was asked by the MTV site Next Movie what he thought about the trend of top directors helming superhero films. Would he ever consider doing so?

"I don't think they are making them an elevated art form," he said of top-shelf filmmakers and their tentpole pics. "I think it's still Batman running around in a stupid cape. I just don't think it's elevated. Christopher Nolan's best movie is Memento, and that is an interesting movie. I don't think his Batman movies are half as interesting, though they're 20 million times the expense."

Cronenberg did admit that he appreciated Nolan's technical efforts, with IMAX cameras and the like, but was still unimpressed with the actual movies. Unlike horror films, which he says have the potential of being art, comic book films don't stand a chance.

"A superhero movie, by definition, you know, it's comic book. It's for kids," Cronenberg asserted. "It's adolescent in its core. That has always been its appeal, and I think people who are saying, you know, Dark Knight Rises is supreme cinema art, I don't think they know what the f--- they're talking about."



makes sense to me, I still have trouble accepting there are so many adults(including some of my good friends, some that are married, have mortgages etc) that have such passion for a character which millions of 7 year olds have pajamas of.

and the 'serious' treatment Nolan gives to this nonsense makes it seem even more silly(but yet in this 'dark' & 'realistic' world of Batman, batman won't kill any bad guys?)

at least Tim Burton's versions kept it where it should be - in a comic book.


Thu Aug 16, 2012 4:19 pm
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Post Re: THE OFFICIAL "DARK KNIGHT RISES" REVIEW THREAD
Raf wrote:
Apparently David Cronenberg didn't like the Dark Knight Rises.

http://movies.yahoo.com/blogs/movie-tal ... 27382.html


Comic book movies can never be art? Riiiiiiiiiiiight. Because the subject matter/topic determines whether or not a film can be art, not how the subject matter is chosen to be portrayed, the quality of the film making/writing, how characters are developed, or anything else...
-Jeremy


Thu Aug 16, 2012 4:33 pm
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Post Re: THE OFFICIAL "DARK KNIGHT RISES" REVIEW THREAD
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I know it'd be unlikely, but I'd hope that they use the original cut of The Gangster Squad for the international release.


Gangster Squad is releasing Jan 11. No word on if it has been edited yet(maybe enough time has passed, that the Aurora link has faded a bit)


Mon Dec 17, 2012 1:31 pm
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