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Science VS religion 
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Post Science VS religion
Religion VS science
This particular topic has fascinated me for as long as I can remember and I know I will be offending some people here but it would be nice to have everyone's viewpoint.
Regarding religion..I stand my ground.
religion begets violence and always has.
There is only one religion...SCIENCE
And there should only be one god....Man.
People follow a herd mentality...they are brainwashed.
I don't wanna get political or get into an argument but pray tell me how do you expect scriptures written 2000 years ago to hold value today?they may have been relevant then,not now.
Atheism should be the way and thats why many hollywood celebrities are liberal atheists because they expirience life,understand and try to work on it.
How would a mid-westerner know all about global warming or SETI when he doesn't have the time to even get out of illinois...Not his fault mind you,just that he lives in that pagan world believing abortion is evil and God is the creator of the solar system.Its the surroundings and expiriences that matter
Next time we should go to a hospital and tell every God believer to please kindly stop using medicines and equipments and go to their churches and mosques to get a treatment.
After all isn't hypocritical that you bash science but still use scientific methods or cures discovered due to science!
Go to your church and ask Jesus to cure you and lets see.
Again all I wanna say is religion is for those who cant make friends.
Being blessed doesn't mean going to sunday chuch religiously or in my case going to the temple and making some offering(Hindu),being blessed would be to try to make this world a better place,try to bring a smile on someone else's face without that in any way benefiting me.That would be true happiness,you see we humans have an innate desire to hate everything around us...race,religion,sex,nationality.We need an excuse to show our superiority.

Someone once told me
" most brilliant minds tend to reject Christianity, which is correlated with being poor and undereducated."

But isn't this the right thing to do?
Science is knowledge,science is education and being educated
Why should we bow down to myths like allah or christ or krishna...why not aryabhatta or madame curie and einstien ?
When I look at the universe and the space and our planet,I feel so insignificant.
That is being educated,not by following traditions and scripts written 1000s of years ago.
They may have been relevant then but now its about time we understand the color of blood is red for an African,Indian or a Caucasian,being trans gender is a disorder related to genetics and the hubble telescope has given us a window to the real world,to the meaning of our existence
Because there is only one race-The human race
and there should only be one religion-science

The reason why there is no contact from intergalactic intelligences is that they can view what has and is happening on Earth and are simply waiting for us to 'grow up', if you will allow me to put it, and stop killing countless people because of a myriad of similar but very different philosophies.
- these philosophies, known as 'Organized Religions' are unprovable, one way or the other, thus rendering them to the box of superstitions.
How can anybody differentiate on the basis of race,skin colour,religion and God is beyond me and that goes for humanity in general.
I think as mankind is evolving science and knowledge is going the next step which is a great thing,more and more people are turning to atheism and I believe there will be a day when the institution of religion will simply be eradicated and mankind will look back and smile reminding himself how stupid he once was

Space colonization,intraspace travel and extraterrestrial contact would be awesome but the true pontential of knowledge and science will be realized when it has overcome some of the most trivial and worthless issues



"The Earth is a very small stage in a vast cosmic arena. Think of the rivers of blood spilled by all those generals and emperors, so that, in glory and triumph, they could become the momentary masters of a fraction of a dot. Think of the endless cruelties visited by the inhabitants of one corner of this pixel on the scarcely distinguishable inhabitants of some other corner, how frequent their misunderstandings, how eager they are to kill one another, how fervent their hatreds. Our posturings, our imagined self-importance, the delusion that we have some privileged position in the Universe, are challenged by this point of pale light."
-carl sagan
I apologize if I offend anyone,it isnt intentional


Last edited by rishi85 on Sat Apr 18, 2009 11:14 am, edited 1 time in total.



Sat Apr 18, 2009 10:33 am
Post Re: Science VS religion
Hi Rishi85

We have a long running thread on religion and it's been remarkable. It has demonstrated how people from all standpoints can be decent and thoughtful. I personally found it very insightful and learned quite a bit.

Religion based threads on forums are often a stormy environment. I'd just ask, once again, that if you dive into the many points made in the opening post, please swim gently :-)

Rob


Sat Apr 18, 2009 10:55 am
Post Re: Science VS religion
Hey rob,
I know it is a sensitive topic and I already stated that I apologise in advance if I offend anyone as I am just stating my beliefs.
I think my topic has more to do with religion's relation with science and not advocating any thing.
You know -Creation VS evolution and stuff
Is it Ok or I should delete the post?


Sat Apr 18, 2009 11:13 am
Post Re: Science VS religion
rishi85 wrote:
Religion VS science
This particular topic has fascinated me for as long as I can remember and I know I will be offending some people here but it would be nice to have everyone's viewpoint.
Regarding religion..I stand my ground.
religion begets violence and always has.
There is only one religion...SCIENCE
And there should only be one god....Man.
People follow a herd mentality...they are brainwashed.
I don't wanna get political or get into an argument but pray tell me how do you expect scriptures written 2000 years ago to hold value today?they may have been relevant then,not now.
Atheism should be the way and thats why many hollywood celebrities are liberal atheists because they expirience life,understand and try to work on it.
How would a mid-westerner know all about global warming or SETI when he doesn't have the time to even get out of illinois...Not his fault mind you,just that he lives in that pagan world believing abortion is evil and God is the creator of the solar system.Its the surroundings and expiriences that matter
Next time we should go to a hospital and tell every God believer to please kindly stop using medicines and equipments and go to their churches and mosques to get a treatment.
After all isn't hypocritical that you bash science but still use scientific methods or cures discovered due to science!
Go to your church and ask Jesus to cure you and lets see.
Again all I wanna say is religion is for those who cant make friends.
Being blessed doesn't mean going to sunday chuch religiously or in my case going to the temple and making some offering(Hindu),being blessed would be to try to make this world a better place,try to bring a smile on someone else's face without that in any way benefiting me.That would be true happiness,you see we humans have an innate desire to hate everything around us...race,religion,sex,nationality.We need an excuse to show our superiority.

Someone once told me
" most brilliant minds tend to reject Christianity, which is correlated with being poor and undereducated."

But isn't this the right thing to do?
Science is knowledge,science is education and being educated
Why should we bow down to myths like allah or christ or krishna...why not aryabhatta or madame curie and einstien ?
When I look at the universe and the space and our planet,I feel so insignificant.
That is being educated,not by following traditions and scripts written 1000s of years ago.
They may have been relevant then but now its about time we understand the color of blood is red for an African,Indian or a Caucasian,being trans gender is a disorder related to genetics and the hubble telescope has given us a window to the real world,to the meaning of our existence
Because there is only one race-The human race
and there should only be one religion-science

The reason why there is no contact from intergalactic intelligences is that they can view what has and is happening on Earth and are simply waiting for us to 'grow up', if you will allow me to put it, and stop killing countless people because of a myriad of similar but very different philosophies.
- these philosophies, known as 'Organized Religions' are unprovable, one way or the other, thus rendering them to the box of superstitions.
How can anybody differentiate on the basis of race,skin colour,religion and God is beyond me and that goes for humanity in general.
I think as mankind is evolving science and knowledge is going the next step which is a great thing,more and more people are turning to atheism and I believe there will be a day when the institution of religion will simply be eradicated and mankind will look back and smile reminding himself how stupid he once was

Space colonization,intraspace travel and extraterrestrial contact would be awesome but the true pontential of knowledge and science will be realized when it has overcome some of the most trivial and worthless issues



"The Earth is a very small stage in a vast cosmic arena. Think of the rivers of blood spilled by all those generals and emperors, so that, in glory and triumph, they could become the momentary masters of a fraction of a dot. Think of the endless cruelties visited by the inhabitants of one corner of this pixel on the scarcely distinguishable inhabitants of some other corner, how frequent their misunderstandings, how eager they are to kill one another, how fervent their hatreds. Our posturings, our imagined self-importance, the delusion that we have some privileged position in the Universe, are challenged by this point of pale light."
-carl sagan



RISHI: say ello to my liddle frien' !!!
.....









...









...
STAN(from south park): holy shit, dude.

sorry, i just couldn't resist.


Sat Apr 18, 2009 11:29 am
Post Re: Science VS religion
to me, science will never explain why i exist and have a conscious about what is right and what is wrong.


Sat Apr 18, 2009 11:42 am
Post Re: Science VS religion
rishi85 wrote:
Is it Ok or I should delete the post?


It looks like it's too late now.

But remember, keep this civil and clean.


Sat Apr 18, 2009 11:44 am
Post Re: Science VS religion
rishi85 wrote:
Hey rob,
I know it is a sensitive topic and I already stated that I apologise in advance if I offend anyone as I am just stating my beliefs.
I think my topic has more to do with religion's relation with science and not advocating any thing.
You know -Creation VS evolution and stuff
Is it Ok or I should delete the post?



Rishi

No problem with your post. there's alot of stuff in your post though, which may make it hard to have a discussion.
I sent you a PM as well :-)

Rob


Sat Apr 18, 2009 11:45 am
Post Re: Science VS religion
rishi85 wrote:
Atheism should be the way and thats why many hollywood celebrities are liberal atheists because they expirience life,understand and try to work on it.


It's easy to "expirience life" when you are paid millions to read lines while others toil with their two hands and struggle to make a living.


Sat Apr 18, 2009 12:16 pm
Post Re: Science VS religion
I'll just point out that the "herd mentality" is most certainly not limited to just religious types...


Sat Apr 18, 2009 2:23 pm
Post Re: Science VS religion
“Hokey religions and ancient weapons are no substitute for a good blaster at your side”


Sat Apr 18, 2009 9:37 pm
Post Re: Science VS religion
I find it hard to understand how someone intelligent can believe in God.

This discussion is different in the US compared with the UK. For example, a declared athiest US presidential candidate would be highly unlikely to be elected, whereas I think it would have little effect on the chances of a UK party leader. If you are devoutly religious in the UK, most people think you are a bit of a crank.


Sun Apr 19, 2009 7:14 am
Post Re: Science VS religion
I'm sorry, rishi, but apologising in advance for a statement like "religion is for people who can't make friends" does not deprive the statement of its downright silly and near-inflammatory content. (See what I did there?)

What makes you think that most or all intelligent people, scientist and/or hollywood celebrities are atheists? Do you have any statistical evidence? I am very certain that you will find many Christian, Muslim, Jewish, Hinduist and Buddhist scientists, who do not see a conflict between their religious beliefs and natural sciences. Is science even concerned with answering spiritual questions?

My impression is that you refer to specific religious groups, such as Creationists, whose views you can easily challenge or disprove, in order to make a general statement about religion. This, I am afraid, is a very poor technique of making a point. And it opens you up to easy counter-arguments. For instance: How do you reconcile your statement with the fact, that the Catholic church has acknowledged in the 1920ies, that the theory of evolution is not contradicting Catholic doctrine, as (I quote from memory, so it may not be wholy accurate) "humans have evolved from apes biologically, but the soul is of divine origin"? This brings your whole argument crashing down, which is a shame because I think that you have valid things to say.

I do not object to your opinion or to a discussion of this topic, but to the way you are making your point. Your statement reads as a simplistic and deliberately insulting (to religious believers) assertion.


Sun Apr 19, 2009 7:55 am
Post Re: Science VS religion
Hi Unke,
Man I shouldn't have posted this issue at all and again I am sorry if I offended anyone out there.
I read somewhere that studies have proven that most people with higher education or better IQ tend to become atheists and now I cant find the link but maybe something like this...(needless to say they are sensitive topics and attract a lot of attention)

http://www.timeshighereducation.co.uk/story.asp?storycode=402381
http://www.the-atheist.com/professor-links-atheism-to-intelligence/

I do not have anything against religion(on the contrary my family and relatives are highly religious)and although I wont adopt it,I wont despise anyone who does so either because everyone is bought up in a different environment and to just go and say whatever values have been instilled in you are bullshit would be rude and hypocrite to an extent but my problem is that religon and many religion propagators(missionaries and stuff) do exactly this and without remorse and I have personally experienced all this crap(I have lived a very weird life).If you want I shall tell you about it.

About spirituality, I believe can be attained through your mind and conscious and you do not need some guidebook to get it but that's just my O.


Sun Apr 19, 2009 12:03 pm
Post Re: Science VS religion
I don't think it's the issue that's causing problems, it's more that it comes off that you're attacking people. If you just posted facts and then wanted to discuss them, there wouldn't be much of a problem.


Sun Apr 19, 2009 12:11 pm
Assistant Second Unit Director

Joined: Mon Mar 02, 2009 4:25 pm
Posts: 79
Post Re: Science VS religion
religion vs science....why does it have to be hyped as a battle of mortal combat??? They are two wholly different frames of searching for truth, just like the discipline of history is different then the discipline of anthropology.


Sun Apr 19, 2009 12:19 pm
Profile
Post Re: Science VS religion
rishi85 wrote:
There is only one religion...SCIENCE
Science isn't a religion. Science has no supernatural element, no rituals, no adherence to tradition, no claims to morality, no reliance on faith, and so on and so forth. And religious teachings don't arise from the scientific method, aren't self-correcting, and so on and so forth.

Quote:
I don't wanna get political or get into an argument but pray tell me how do you expect scriptures written 2000 years ago to hold value today?they may have been relevant then,not now.
For one thing, relevance is in the eye of the beholder. For another, it's not the passage of time that makes something relevant or irrelevant.

Quote:
Atheism should be the way and thats why many hollywood celebrities are liberal atheists because they expirience life,understand and try to work on it.
Meh. I can see what you're trying to do here... but this is a pretty poor case for atheism. If people conclude, of their own accord, that there probably isn't a god and that their lives are fine without the assumption that there is one, that's great. But they shouldn't feel any more or less compelled to do so just because famous people have done so. (Unless those famous people have some kind of relevant expertise, such as geology or evolutionary biology, which shed light on religious teachings.)

Quote:
The reason why there is no contact from intergalactic intelligences is that they can view what has and is happening on Earth and are simply waiting for us to 'grow up', if you will allow me to put it, and stop killing countless people because of a myriad of similar but very different philosophies.
While that's an interesting piece of speculation, the reason we haven't had first contact (assuming that it will ever happen) is simply down to probability. Considering the vastness of the universe, the timescale we've been working on so far is pitifully short.

Quote:
- these philosophies, known as 'Organized Religions' are unprovable, one way or the other, thus rendering them to the box of superstitions.
Science itself assumes that things are only provable to the point that they can also be disproved, which is why most scientists prefer to use the term "scientific theory" instead of "scientific fact." Logic and mathematics are the only fields I can think of off the top of my head in which something can be outright proved, without qualification.

hgs0814 wrote:
religion vs science....why does it have to be hyped as a battle of mortal combat??? They are two wholly different frames of searching for truth, just like the discipline of history is different then the discipline of anthropology.
I don't think this is necessarily true. For one thing, the religions of the world make a variety of claims that cannot be disproved. While these elements are out of the realm of science, they're also--as far as I'm concerned--out of the realm of discovery. If the claims can't be disproved, then there's no basis by which you might determine what's for real and what's bunk. In the search for the truths of the universe, most religions don't seem to be looking very hard.

For another thing, religions make a variety of claims that CAN be disproved, which thrust them directly into the scrutiny of science. Purportedly historical events recorded in the various religious texts, for example. In this sense, scientific claims and religious claims do tread, and often contradict one another, in the same realm: the realm of the empirical.


Sun Apr 19, 2009 5:57 pm
Post Re: Science VS religion
rishi85 wrote:
People follow a herd mentality...they are brainwashed.

rishi85 wrote:
Go to your church and ask Jesus to cure you and lets see.

rishi85 wrote:
Again all I wanna say is religion is for those who cant make friends.

rishi85 wrote:
" most brilliant minds tend to reject Christianity, which is correlated with being poor and undereducated."

rishi85 wrote:
I believe there will be a day when the institution of religion will simply be eradicated and mankind will look back and smile reminding himself how stupid he once was


If you want to have a serious discussion about religion, how about refraining from personal attacks against anyone who disagrees with you.
You come across as more naive and set in your beliefs than the people you are criticizing with that kind of nonsense.

rishi85 wrote:
I apologize if I offend anyone,it isnt intentional

rishi85 wrote:
Man I shouldn't have posted this issue at all and again I am sorry if I offended anyone out there.

rishi85 wrote:
I do not have anything against religion(on the contrary my family and relatives are highly religious)and although I wont adopt it,I wont despise anyone who does so

Bullshit.

You clearly have something against religion and religious people (see above), and we can have an interesting discussion about it if you open yourself up to criticism as much as you give it, instead of hiding behind apologies.


Sun Apr 19, 2009 6:16 pm
Post Re: Science VS religion
Hey all, long time visitor to the site, first time poster. My thoughts on science vs religion is there is a disconnect when we have those in the vocal minority opposed to religion preaching, condemning and forcing their beliefs on others...only to preach against religion, condemn those who follow it and force their beliefs on others. If someone is so wrapped up in what others believe that they cannot function then it is worth stating that it takes a dangerous person to be upset over something so minor.


Sun Apr 19, 2009 6:34 pm
Post Re: Science VS religion
Every once in a while on this site comes an argument like this one. Stuffed with ad hominem attacks and pompous aphorisms ("Science is knowledge,science is education and being educated"), the argument follows a typical Internet line of deriding those who haven't been "enlightened" and then waxing sophomoric with definitive statements carrying a hostile edge.

I'm a weak atheist in that I don't believe in a God being necessary for me to continue on but it's no eye-rolling, hot-tempered religion unto itself: people need space to have all sorts of beliefs and ideas without someone screaming "You're wrong!" into their ears before screaming "Listen to me! Listen to me!". After a while, if you've been out and about in the world working with others and listening to what they say, you find the question of "BLANK v. BLANK 2" doesn't come up. It's great: people actually go about their lives and can effectively do two things and STILL REMAIN human. There are lots of people working in physical chemistry that actually have piety toward their God.

Why, for the love of the internet, does it always come down to being uneducated? What kind of bullet point is that? Go out and meet more people and try to define empathy in action. Put down the Christopher Hitchens and Richard Dawkins and strengthen your arguments so you won't have to paint with a broad brush and call a big cross section of people intellectually challenged. Frame the argument so people can actually argue their points without having to fight against a hastily applied label.


Sun Apr 19, 2009 7:11 pm
Post Re: Science VS religion
rishi85 wrote:
Hi Unke,
Man I shouldn't have posted this issue at all and again I am sorry if I offended anyone out there.
I read somewhere that studies have proven that most people with higher education or better IQ tend to become atheists and now I cant find the link but maybe something like this...(needless to say they are sensitive topics and attract a lot of attention)

http://www.timeshighereducation.co.uk/story.asp?storycode=402381
http://www.the-atheist.com/professor-links-atheism-to-intelligence/

I do not have anything against religion(on the contrary my family and relatives are highly religious)and although I wont adopt it,I wont despise anyone who does so either because everyone is bought up in a different environment and to just go and say whatever values have been instilled in you are bullshit would be rude and hypocrite to an extent but my problem is that religon and many religion propagators(missionaries and stuff) do exactly this and without remorse and I have personally experienced all this crap(I have lived a very weird life).If you want I shall tell you about it.

About spirituality, I believe can be attained through your mind and conscious and you do not need some guidebook to get it but that's just my O.


I don’t have any expertise in psychology, but I somehow doubt that Richard Lynn’s research is of any great value.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Lynn#Sex_differences_in_intelligence

He also believes that intelligence is racially determined and that women have lower measured intelligence than men due to their smaller brain size. He even claims that the intelligence of African-Americans is connected with light skin color and descent from Caucasians. He’s spoken at conferences sponsored by white supremacists. In short: bullshit!


Sun Apr 19, 2009 8:34 pm
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