Discussion of movies and ReelThoughts topics

It is currently Fri Aug 01, 2014 6:43 pm




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 111 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6
Kurt Cobain- 20 years 
Author Message
Producer
User avatar

Joined: Sun Oct 07, 2012 6:26 pm
Posts: 2157
Post Re: Kurt Cobain- 20 years
NotHughGrant wrote:
Let's put it this way, how many times a year do you get into your car and churn out a Muddy Waters, Duke Ellington, Woody Guthrie or Hank Williams record??
With the exception of Woody, lately I play more of these artists than any of the others you go on to mention.

NotHughGrant wrote:
By real, tangible metrics, the UK kicks the US's ass.

By real, tangible metrics, Britney Spears kicks Stevie Ray Vaughan's ass.

And yes, The Rolling Stones still get a shitload of airplay, but instead of playing something good like "You Got The Silver" or "Memo From Turner", it's always dreck like "It's Only Rock And Roll" or "Start Me Up". They may have made some of the greatest songs of all time, but they're also responsible for a lot of songs that never need to be heard again ever by anyone for the duration of humankind.

_________________
The temptation is to like what you should like--not what you do like... another temptation is to come up with an interesting reason for liking it that may not actually be the reason you like it.


Thu May 15, 2014 6:40 am
Profile
Director
User avatar

Joined: Sun Jun 20, 2010 4:04 pm
Posts: 1667
Location: New Hampshire
Post Re: Kurt Cobain- 20 years
NotHughGrant wrote:
That's pretty goddam subjective list to say the least.


I never said it wasn't.

Quote:
Ignoring the ones that weren't or weren't part of guitar bands, you also stretching the definitions of great to notions of historical significance.


Something can be historically significant and be great. The two aren't mutually exclusive.

Quote:
Let's put it this way, how many times a year do you get into your car and churn out a Muddy Waters, Duke Ellington, Woody Guthrie or Hank Williams record??


I listen to Muddy frequently. I also listen to jazz, classic country and folk music. I personally enjoy expanding my horizons beyond three- and four-chord guitar rock.


Quote:
And they key here is 'without irony' because although Aerosmith and Van Halen and Bon Jovi also sell out venues, it's an exercise in nostalgic twee. A colleague of mine went to see Bon Jovi a few years ago, not because she thinks they're great, but because it's all a bit of a joke.


And you don't think this applies to the Stones? If the Stones put out a new record, no one would be that interested in it. People go to Stones shows to hear the classics, and isn't that the very definition of nostalgia? I'm not sure if you've noticed, but the Stones had difficulty selling all of the tickets for their latest tour, probably because they were too expensive. They were practically giving them away in some areas.

Quote:
By real, tangible metrics, the UK kicks the US's ass. America may have offered up the genesis, the foundations, the concept of popular music. But we ran away with it and made it matter. Made it great.

And your appeals to the deeper recesses of the music archives, rather than great American bands of the 60s, 70s and 80s proves this point.


I've never argued that the UK hasn't produced great bands. I'm arguing against your stance that American popular music is shit. Two different things. I can come up with a list of great American artists and limit it to the 60s through the 80s if you're interested. I think it's kind of redundant, because half of the American artists I listed did make great and vital music during that period.

_________________
Death is pretty final
I'm collecting vinyl
I'm gonna DJ at the end of the world.


Thu May 15, 2014 7:26 am
Profile
Producer
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jun 28, 2011 9:04 am
Posts: 2391
Location: Lancashire, England.
Post Re: Kurt Cobain- 20 years
Quote:
Something can be historically significant and be great. The two aren't mutually exclusive.



I didn't say they couldn't be, just that they're not necessarily.

Quote:
I listen to Muddy frequently. I also listen to jazz, classic country and folk music. I personally enjoy expanding my horizons beyond three- and four-chord guitar rock.


Well you're clearly a specific example. Because as creditworthy as laying foundations undeniably is, their music isn't directly relevant in the way the subsequent bands are.


Quote:
And you don't think this applies to the Stones? If the Stones put out a new record, no one would be that interested in it. People go to Stones shows to hear the classics, and isn't that the very definition of nostalgia?


In a sense yes. But people go see the Stones or strain to watch Pink Floyd because they were/are great. Not because it reminds them of mullet haircuts or tight jeans. Queen still sell out venues today, and Freddy has been dead for 23 years.

Quote:
I'm not sure if you've noticed, but the Stones had difficulty selling all of the tickets for their latest tour, probably because they were too expensive.


Well yeah, that may be the case. But still not bad when your crux of songs is pushing half a century old.


Quote:
I've never argued that the UK hasn't produced great bands. I'm arguing against your stance that American popular music is shit. Two different things. I can come up with a list of great American artists and limit it to the 60s through the 80s if you're interested. I think it's kind of redundant, because half of the American artists I listed did make great and vital music during that period.


Crack on. But all I'm saying is this, the very early days aside, your roster of great bands in the era of great bands in general, doesn't stack up to ours. Not close.

Happy birthday Btw

_________________
... because I'm a wild animal


Thu May 15, 2014 7:57 am
Profile
Director
User avatar

Joined: Mon Apr 06, 2009 5:07 pm
Posts: 1527
Post Re: Kurt Cobain- 20 years
Rock N Roll was largely an American invention (Chuck Berry, Bo Diddley, Little Richard, Buddy Holly). But the British definitely helped keep it going. But it was primarily American music (Blues, Jazz) that laid the foundation for it.

Vexer wrote:
No one thinks Aerosmith are a "joke" either, they too would sell out without a hint of irony.

I personally never got what the big deal about the Stones was, they have a few decent songs but I rarely have any real urge to listen to any of their albums.


At this point both Aerosmith and the Stones are nostalgia acts. They tour so they can play the familiar hits people want to hear and release albums as an excuse to tour. The last truly great Aerosmith album was Pump in 1989. For the Stones, it was 1981's Tattoo You.

Whereas I strongly suspect that many people going to see Bruce Springsteen today would go to hear the new album. They've heard him do "Glory Days" several times before and it's a great song. But they don't need to hear it again.

Vexer wrote:
Linkin Park, Three Days Grace Stind, Breaking Benjamin, Limp Bizkit, System Of A Down, Slipknot, Puddle Of Mudd, Theory Of A Deadman, Saliva, Hinder, Five Finger Death Punch, 3 Doors Down, Audioslave


The primary problem with most mainstream (emphasis on that last word) guitar rock since the end of the 1990s is the angst for the sake of angst aspect of so much of it. Or on the other hand, ones like Matchbox 20, John Mayer, Five For Fighting etc sound like slightly edgier Bryan Adams and tend to nauseate as much as Bryan Adams did.

A lot of mainstream rock since the end of the 90s in fact seems determined to bite off what previous bands did before and better. There are exceptions (Wilco, the White Stripes. Queens Of The Stone Age even System Of A Down and Audioslave). But there's a reason why I gave up on most mainstream music about 7-8 years ago.

_________________
This ain't a city council meeting you know-Joe Cabot

Cinema is a matter of what's in the frame and what's out-Martin Scorsese.

http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1347771599


Thu May 15, 2014 10:51 am
Profile
Second Unit Director
User avatar

Joined: Tue Oct 09, 2012 10:26 am
Posts: 228
Post Re: Kurt Cobain- 20 years
Holy crap I'm away from my PC for a while and now I need to find lead and cast musket balls.

Quote:
it's an exercise in nostalgic twee

This makes me laugh. Unless you're listening to something new, isn't it all nostalgia?

Quote:
By real, tangible metrics, the UK kicks the US's ass

and we don't use the metric system... so there.

_________________
______________________________
Specializing in rodent behavior modification.
-Watch me pull a habit out of rat.


Thu May 15, 2014 12:52 pm
Profile
Auteur
User avatar

Joined: Sun Oct 07, 2012 12:02 pm
Posts: 3375
Location: Zion, IL
Post Re: Kurt Cobain- 20 years
Aerosmith has made plenty of great albums since "Pump", 2001's "Just Push Play" was quite good.

I like some mainstream music, but there is quite a bit that does nothing for me, for example pop-punk bands like Simple Plan, MxPx, Yellowcard, Fallout Boy, Good Charlotte, Green Day, etc I find to be extremely mediocre.

NotHugh-Our music stacks up against yours pretty damn well.

Also people go to see Aerosmith because they still sound good, they don't go because of "mullets" or anything like that.


Thu May 15, 2014 2:42 pm
Profile
Auteur
User avatar

Joined: Sun Oct 07, 2012 12:02 pm
Posts: 3375
Location: Zion, IL
Post Re: Kurt Cobain- 20 years
NotHughGrant wrote:
Vexer wrote:
No one thinks Aerosmith are a "joke" either, they too would sell out without a hint of irony.

I personally never got what the big deal about the Stones was, they have a few decent songs but I rarely have any real urge to listen to any of their albums.

Don't see how "appeals to the "deeper recesses"(whatever the hell that even means :? ) proves your point at all.


Well no offence but your opinion of the Stones means squat when you profess your admiration for Linkin Park.

And the deeper reassesses means what it says. Sexy Chocco has moved the debate to largely academic notions of who started what rather than who is tangibly relevant and great
No offense, but your anti-US stance means "squat", so far you haven't really come up with a good response to anything Choco has posted.

Nothing at all wrong with prefering Linkin Park over the Stones, it just my personal taste, if you can't accept that, too bad :lol:


Thu May 15, 2014 2:46 pm
Profile
Director
User avatar

Joined: Sun Jun 20, 2010 4:04 pm
Posts: 1667
Location: New Hampshire
Post Re: Kurt Cobain- 20 years
NotHughGrant wrote:
Crack on. But all I'm saying is this, the very early days aside, your roster of great bands in the era of great bands in general, doesn't stack up to ours. Not close.


Okay, here it goes - 25 truly great American artists from the 1960s through the 1980s whose work stands up alongside their British contemporaries:

The Beach Boys
Big Star
James Brown
The Cars
John Coltrane
Creedence Clearwater Revival
Miles Davis
The Doors
Bob Dylan
Buddy Guy
Herbie Hancock
Jimi Hendrix
Michael Jackson
Metallica
Nirvana
Parliament-Funkadelic
Tom Petty
Prince
Public Enemy
The Ramones
Red Hot Chili Peppers
R.E.M.
The Replacements
Smokey Robinson
Run-DMC
Sonic Youth
Bruce Springsteen
The Stooges
Talking Heads
The Velvet Underground
Tom Waits
Stevie Wonder
Neil Young
ZZ Top

And I believe that's more than 25. I dare anyone to listen to any of these artists in their prime and conclude American music sucks.

_________________
Death is pretty final
I'm collecting vinyl
I'm gonna DJ at the end of the world.


Thu May 15, 2014 5:07 pm
Profile
Producer
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jun 28, 2011 9:04 am
Posts: 2391
Location: Lancashire, England.
Post Re: Kurt Cobain- 20 years
She wore a raspberry beret
The kind U find in a second hand store


Hard not to love

_________________
... because I'm a wild animal


Mon May 19, 2014 6:22 am
Profile
Director
User avatar

Joined: Sun Jun 20, 2010 4:04 pm
Posts: 1667
Location: New Hampshire
Post Re: Kurt Cobain- 20 years
Absolutely. Most people know Prince by the hits, but his work is so amazingly diverse. It can be absolutely exhausting to go through it all - the jazzy stuff, the long jams, the stuff that's rooted in more traditional rock and funk - but it can be very rewarding.

_________________
Death is pretty final
I'm collecting vinyl
I'm gonna DJ at the end of the world.


Mon May 19, 2014 7:01 am
Profile
Second Unit Director
User avatar

Joined: Sat Oct 20, 2012 9:17 am
Posts: 228
Post Re: Kurt Cobain- 20 years
I love Kurt Cobain's influence on the Preacher.


Mon Jun 30, 2014 4:59 am
Profile
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 111 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Exabot [Bot] and 2 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group.
Designed by Vjacheslav Trushkin for Free Forum/DivisionCore.
Translated by Xaphos © 2007, 2008, 2009 phpBB.fr