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Obligatory Obamacare thread 
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Post Re: Obligatory Obamacare thread
If James Holmes bought a fully automatic rifle online without filing and receiving approval from the federal government and then presenting that paper work to the seller then several laws were already broken in that transaction. No additional amount of legislation will stop it.

The personal stories about how people are being affected by ACA are extremely important if you actually care about being a self governed people. Prior to a very important election in 2012 the leader of the executive branch of our government assured voters that ACA would make health care more affordable for all and promised everyone that they could keep the plan they have now if they like it. In doing so, he was able to secure his own re-election and keep his party in the majority of the Senate. It is very clear now that neither of those things were true (as evidenced by these personal stories of people needing to move to much more expensive plans with crippling annual deductibles), but were repeated to overcome the voters extremely negative perceptions of Obamacare which had led to the sweeping change in the balance of power in the House of Representatives in 2010.


Tue Nov 19, 2013 9:20 am
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Post Re: Obligatory Obamacare thread
roastbeef_ajus wrote:
But these personal stories of people I know can be expanded to millions of people, pretty much the entire middle class.
So demonstrate it. Give us the numbers that bear out what you're saying. If you're certain that what applies to the specific people you've mentioned applies to all Americans in general, then surely there is evidence to compare the number of people who are doing well post-ACA and people who aren't doing well, plus the just-as-important evidence to compare the number of people doing well pre-ACA to the people who aren't doing well.

Quote:
Also, I agree one cannot make informed decisions based on anecdotes...there is no data sample in the world that can contextualize or be used to predict the next mass murder...but every time one happens, at random, politicians use that instance to bring up gun control, and how guns are bad.
Here's something my mom used to tell me: if somebody does something stupid and you retaliate by doing something stupid, what you end up with is twice the stupid.

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Tue Nov 19, 2013 10:08 am
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Post Re: Obligatory Obamacare thread
If the ACA was ever described to the U.S. voter by it's advocates as a system where many would have to pay a painful amount more for their own insurance, but that the overall benefit to society at large was a net gain, then I must have missed it somewhere. Somehow I'm pretty sure that millions of well meaning moms and dads will feel some regret next year when their plans at work (which were conveniently delayed for compliance to ACA for a year) increase dramatically in cost and they realize that they drastically compromised their own family's finances by voting for people who promised them that they would not be personally affected in a negative way by ACA.


Tue Nov 19, 2013 10:42 am
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Post Re: Obligatory Obamacare thread
What you are asking for is that people take the word of political candidates with a grain of salt and take the trouble to inform themselves based on credible, evidence-based resources.

I want this. I think most of the people here probably want this.

That said, I suspect that the same people who wanted some sort of a public healthcare option would still want one. Perhaps just not this one.

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Tue Nov 19, 2013 10:54 am
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Post Re: Obligatory Obamacare thread
No. What I'm asking for is for politicians to fairly represent their plans. I would fire an employee that blatantly misrepresents the information they provide me for their own gain. I think it is very unfortunate that most don't believe or realize that government workers are employees of the people.


Tue Nov 19, 2013 11:10 am
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Post Re: Obligatory Obamacare thread
http://washingtonstatewire.com/blog/rude-awakening-for-federal-way-woman-who-got-shout-out-from-president-cant-afford-obamacare-policy-after-all/

Either she was a plant or she'll soon be receiving all sorts of goodies from the Feds.


Tue Nov 19, 2013 11:57 am
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Post Re: Obligatory Obamacare thread
CasualDad wrote:
No. What I'm asking for is for politicians to fairly represent their plans. I would fire an employee that blatantly misrepresents the information they provide me for their own gain. I think it is very unfortunate that most don't believe or realize that government workers are employees of the people.

They are employees of the people. Unfortunately, it's very difficult to get rid of them before their term is up unless they've done something blatantly and provably illegal.

Perhaps we could ask them to make it illegal for themselves to lie, but my suggestion sounds downright feasible by comparison.

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Tue Nov 19, 2013 12:03 pm
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Post Re: Obligatory Obamacare thread
Johnny Larue wrote:
NotHughGrant wrote:
But come on, the Obama party had to come crashing. It was bullshit on stilts to begin with.


Second terms of US presidencies (regardless of party affiliation) are generally more challenged and less successful than first terms. I don't know why Obama's would be any different.


Bush, and even Clinton, became targets for all kind of abuse the world over, pretty much from day 1. Obama avoided much of this (apart from the whole birth certificate thing), but is slowly being found out now. An academic with no real-life preparation was never going to go too well I'm afraid.

We have the same issue here. Our senior MPs go - Oxbridge > research department > safe seat in the commons. No wonder we're so f*cked

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Tue Nov 19, 2013 12:28 pm
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Post Re: Obligatory Obamacare thread
I don't believe government should be expected to reform itself. I only wish the people would demand honesty from their elected officials. Discourse such as this is a start.


Tue Nov 19, 2013 12:35 pm
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Post Re: Obligatory Obamacare thread
Quote:
Also, I agree one cannot make informed decisions based on anecdotes...there is no data sample in the world that can contextualize or be used to predict the next mass murder...but every time one happens, at random, politicians use that instance to bring up gun control, and how guns are bad.


One thing I've noticed about mass-shootings in America, is that when one occurs, the liberal media decry the gun-wielding hick stereotypes of Deliverance fame. When in reality it's always, narcissistic suburban kids, pissed off at how the world has allegedly treated them.

Last year I watched a documentary on Columbine (not Bowling for), and what struck me is that these f*ckers had no real, legitimate grievance with society. Only a twisted notion of their own self-esteem.

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Tue Nov 19, 2013 12:39 pm
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Post Re: Obligatory Obamacare thread
If by that, you mean they were cuckoo for cocoa puffs, which they were.

People like to throw around the word "narcissistic", as in "Hey, I'm feeling narcissistic today, so I'm going to post selfies on Facebook and tell everyone that I had diarrhea last night"... but then there's genuine narcissism, severe narcissism, the kind that produces uncontrollable rage and fantasies of suicidal glory.

And then there's the kind of personality that is so Biblically weak-willed and dependent that it becomes seduced by such a narcissistic personality--a strong personality to compensate for that lack of strength. That would round out the Columbine kids. Two boys with enough loose screws to fill the whole drawer.

Human characteristics almost invariably fall along a bell curve. The more people we have, the more people we'll see popping up at tapered ends of the curve--including people whose brains don't work quite the same as everyone else's, and (we hope) who might learn to cope with it, if only we can understand the nature of the issue before it becomes malignant.

I do think there's an argument to be made for gun control, but I don't think it lies with those examples of end-of-the-bell-curve shooters. There's no actionable information there, no reliable predictors by which we might curb gun crime. Quite simply, not nearly enough data. They're essentially random incidents.

We can't completely do away with the problem of rogue shooters by banning this or that--perhaps we can blunt the problem somewhat, but there's still the lingering question of preventative solutions.

We can take proactive measures to get these people the help they need. NotHugh is generally correct in the common characteristics he observes in these shooters--usually young, usually male, usually without a rational grievance against his targets--but there's another characteristic that most people overlook. A lot of them either showed signs of trouble early on or actually reached out for help long before they finally cracked.

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Tue Nov 19, 2013 1:22 pm
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Post Re: Obligatory Obamacare thread
this seems to have f***ed Obama's legacy so I ask the following question.
Who should replace him?


Wed Nov 20, 2013 7:23 am
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Post Re: Obligatory Obamacare thread
We are not even two years into Obama's second term, and just a little while ago people were tripping over themselves to declare the Republican Party a sinking ship. The news cycle turns over quickly. Nobody's legacy is fucked. Not yet.

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Wed Nov 20, 2013 9:48 am
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Post Re: Obligatory Obamacare thread
p604 wrote:
this seems to have f***ed Obama's legacy so I ask the following question.
Who should replace him?


Obama's legacy was fucked the second he stepped foot in the white house. Billy in 4C (yes I'm making a Dumb and Dumber reference) could have done a better job at running this country by just petting Petey and saying "Pretty Bird," than this clown has done.

I actually think Jeb Bush would be a good candidate, but unfortunately, his last name doesn't do him any favors. People wouldn't even listen to what he has to say, they would just see BUSH...oh nooooo.


Wed Nov 20, 2013 11:43 am
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Post Re: Obligatory Obamacare thread
roastbeef_ajus wrote:
p604 wrote:
this seems to have f***ed Obama's legacy so I ask the following question.
Who should replace him?


Obama's legacy was fucked the second he stepped foot in the white house. Billy in 4C (yes I'm making a Dumb and Dumber reference) could have done a better job at running this country by just petting Petey and saying "Pretty Bird," than this clown has done.

I actually think Jeb Bush would be a good candidate, but unfortunately, his last name doesn't do him any favors. People wouldn't even listen to what he has to say, they would just see BUSH...oh nooooo.

Jeb cheated his brother into the presidency in 2000 with that Florida nonsense, so I say "fuck that!" with every fiber of my being :evil:

Obama's legacy is just fine, anyone who thinks it's "fucked" is truly delusional.


Wed Nov 20, 2013 1:29 pm
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Post Re: Obligatory Obamacare thread
Vexer wrote:
roastbeef_ajus wrote:
p604 wrote:
this seems to have f***ed Obama's legacy so I ask the following question.
Who should replace him?


Obama's legacy was fucked the second he stepped foot in the white house. Billy in 4C (yes I'm making a Dumb and Dumber reference) could have done a better job at running this country by just petting Petey and saying "Pretty Bird," than this clown has done.

I actually think Jeb Bush would be a good candidate, but unfortunately, his last name doesn't do him any favors. People wouldn't even listen to what he has to say, they would just see BUSH...oh nooooo.

Jeb cheated his brother into the presidency in 2000 with that Florida nonsense, so I say "fuck that!" with every fiber of my being :evil:

Obama's legacy is just fine, anyone who thinks it's "fucked" is truly delusional.


Please show me one legitimate article (not some liberal basement blogger website) that proves Jeb cheated Al Gore.


Wed Nov 20, 2013 2:21 pm
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Post Re: Obligatory Obamacare thread
CasualDad wrote:
If the ACA was ever described to the U.S. voter by it's advocates as a system where many would have to pay a painful amount more for their own insurance, but that the overall benefit to society at large was a net gain, then I must have missed it somewhere. Somehow I'm pretty sure that millions of well meaning moms and dads will feel some regret next year when their plans at work (which were conveniently delayed for compliance to ACA for a year) increase dramatically in cost and they realize that they drastically compromised their own family's finances by voting for people who promised them that they would not be personally affected in a negative way by ACA.


All our president did was make sure the uninsured get insured while butt fucking wholesome America. The ones that have always been diligent and had healthcare now must cover the cost of the people who never have. The only thing is, those people who never had it get subsidized plans, and the good, wholesome American providing for his family must pay more for worse coverage.

#seemslegit

And people like Vex keep defending this clown.


Wed Nov 20, 2013 6:53 pm
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Post Re: Obligatory Obamacare thread
roastbeef_ajus wrote:
CasualDad wrote:
If the ACA was ever described to the U.S. voter by it's advocates as a system where many would have to pay a painful amount more for their own insurance, but that the overall benefit to society at large was a net gain, then I must have missed it somewhere. Somehow I'm pretty sure that millions of well meaning moms and dads will feel some regret next year when their plans at work (which were conveniently delayed for compliance to ACA for a year) increase dramatically in cost and they realize that they drastically compromised their own family's finances by voting for people who promised them that they would not be personally affected in a negative way by ACA.


All our president did was make sure the uninsured get insured while butt fucking wholesome America. The ones that have always been diligent and had healthcare now must cover the cost of the people who never have. The only thing is, those people who never had it get subsidized plans, and the good, wholesome American providing for his family must pay more for worse coverage.

#seemslegit

And people like Vex keep defending this clown.

So you're saying lower-class people don't deserve insurance? Obama isn't "screwing" anyone over aside from the predatory insurance companies.

The only clown I see right now is you.


Wed Nov 20, 2013 7:00 pm
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Post Re: Obligatory Obamacare thread
Vexer wrote:
So you're saying lower-class people don't deserve insurance? Obama isn't "screwing" anyone over aside from the predatory insurance companies.


Everyone deserves medical insurance. But some people shouldn't have to pay more for worse coverage, just so others can now have it subsidized. I should be responsible to pay coverage for myself and immediate family...not some random joe I've never met.


Wed Nov 20, 2013 7:17 pm
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Post Re: Obligatory Obamacare thread
Vexer wrote:
So you're saying lower-class people don't deserve insurance?


Not if obtained through deception. The President said healthcare would be more affordable for all.


Wed Nov 20, 2013 7:24 pm
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