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Politics: Gun Control, Obamacare, tax increase... 
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Post Re: Politics: Gun Control, Obamacare, tax increase...
Vexer wrote:
Well the very low percentage of people that supposedly DO get affected by onscreen violence are unstable individuals whose violent impulses can be triggered by ANYTHING, even if they don't see any onscreen violence, sooner or later they will likely end up snapping one way or another.


I would suspect that the percentage of people who DO get affected by onscreen violence is higher than you think. I'm not just referring to people who go on rampages. I would admit that I myself have been conditioned by the media to a certain degree over the years, though I don't think I'm ready to go out and buy an assault rifle and shoot up a school. The influence is still there, however. I take personal responsibility in the fact that I freely consume this media, but there are also times where I blame the provider when I say to myself "did I really need to see that?" (see any of the films classified as "torture porn".)


Wed Feb 27, 2013 1:31 pm
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Post Re: Politics: Gun Control, Obamacare, tax increase...
Johnny Larue wrote:
Vexer wrote:
Well the very low percentage of people that supposedly DO get affected by onscreen violence are unstable individuals whose violent impulses can be triggered by ANYTHING, even if they don't see any onscreen violence, sooner or later they will likely end up snapping one way or another.


I would suspect that the percentage of people who DO get affected by onscreen violence is higher than you think. I'm not just referring to people who go on rampages. I would admit that I myself have been conditioned by the media to a certain degree over the years, though I don't think I'm ready to go out and buy an assault rifle and shoot up a school. The influence is still there, however. I take personal responsibility in the fact that I freely consume this media, but there are also times where I blame the provider when I say to myself "did I really need to see that?" (see any of the films classified as "torture porn".)
How do you know the percentage is "higher then I think"? Where's your proof? :?
I REALLY hate the term "torture porn"(It's a phrase coined by movie critics too lazy to properly review horror films) and I think it's utterly ridiculous to blame the providers just because you saw something you didn't want to see, nobody forced you to watch those films, you should've known what you what you were getting into beforehand with those types of films. There's "personal responsiblity" involved with everything, dosen't mean one should blame the content providers unless it's REAL violence they're showing(like war footage broadcast on the news), most of those studies done on people to determine whether there's a link between brain activity and onscreen violence are skewed to favor the supporting side in order to further push the agenda that fake violence is to blame for real violence. This reminds me of those people who tried to blame Doom for inspiring the Columbine killers, which was of course proven to be complete and total nonsense.


Wed Feb 27, 2013 1:46 pm
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Post Re: Politics: Gun Control, Obamacare, tax increase...
Vexer wrote:
Johnny Larue wrote:
Vexer wrote:
Well the very low percentage of people that supposedly DO get affected by onscreen violence are unstable individuals whose violent impulses can be triggered by ANYTHING, even if they don't see any onscreen violence, sooner or later they will likely end up snapping one way or another.


I would suspect that the percentage of people who DO get affected by onscreen violence is higher than you think. I'm not just referring to people who go on rampages. I would admit that I myself have been conditioned by the media to a certain degree over the years, though I don't think I'm ready to go out and buy an assault rifle and shoot up a school. The influence is still there, however. I take personal responsibility in the fact that I freely consume this media, but there are also times where I blame the provider when I say to myself "did I really need to see that?" (see any of the films classified as "torture porn".)
How do you know the percentage is "higher then I think"? Where's your proof? :?


First of all, you need to stop mis-quoting me. I did NOT say "I know". I said "I suspect", which means I admittedly have not gathered all of the facts but am basing my position on what I consider to be assumptions based on logic. YOU said "the very low percentage of people that supposedly DO get affected by onscreen violence". Well....where's YOUR proof? I stipulated that just because someone doesn't shoot up a suburban mall does NOT mean that they haven't been unaffected, citing myself as an example.
Vexer wrote:
I REALLY hate the term "torture porn"(It's a phrase coined by movie critics too lazy to properly review horror films) and I think it's utterly ridiculous to blame the providers just because you saw something you didn't want to see, nobody forced you to watch those films, you should've known what you what you were getting into beforehand with those types of films.

So I should ONLY watch a movie where everything is detailed to me before hand, is that what you're saying? These are movies that I do stay away from. I have only seen a couple of them on cable and they disgusted me enough that I veer away from the subject matter. Or are you saying that I shouldn't even bother sampling new films.
Vexer wrote:
There's "personal responsiblity" involved with everything, dosen't mean one should blame the content providers unless it's REAL violence they're showing(like war footage broadcast on the news), most of those studies done on people to determine whether there's a link between brain activity and onscreen violence are skewed to favor the supporting side in order to further push the agenda that fake violence is to blame for real violence.

Says who? Maybe I could easily say "the minority of those studies that show there's no link to between brain activity and onscreen violence are skewed in order to absolve culpable parties for the violence in society.
Vexer wrote:
This reminds me of those people who tried to blame Doom for inspiring the Columbine killers, which was of course proven to be complete and total nonsense.

I would never say that the results of Columbine were not as a direct result of 2 misguided individuals. But, IMO, to say that DOOM or "The Matrix" had NO influence on their behavior to me is complete and total nonsense. Were DOOM and "The Matrix" the causes of Columbine? No. Were they contributing factors? I don't see why you would say that the possiblity is not there. I really dislike black/white arguments in a world of gray. :evil:


Wed Feb 27, 2013 3:08 pm
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Post Re: Politics: Gun Control, Obamacare, tax increase...
Here's a study from several state university psychology departments, the abstractred conclusion of which is: "Research on violent television and films, video games, and music reveals unequivocal evidence that media violence increases the likelihood of aggressive and violent behavior in both immediate and long-term contexts."

http://www.psychology.iastate.edu/facul ... DHJLMW.pdf


Wed Feb 27, 2013 3:24 pm
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Post Re: Politics: Gun Control, Obamacare, tax increase...
Johnny Larue wrote:
Here's a study from several state university psychology departments, the abstractred conclusion of which is: "Research on violent television and films, video games, and music reveals unequivocal evidence that media violence increases the likelihood of aggressive and violent behavior in both immediate and long-term contexts."

http://www.psychology.iastate.edu/facul ... DHJLMW.pdf

Those so-called "studies" are often manipulated to produce results, Here's MY proof:http://www.mediaite.com/online/oft-cited-anti-violent-video-game-study-actually-says-guns-are-the-problem/

You're seriously saying Doom and The Matrix were "contributing effects" to the Columbine killers? :shock:

Wow, that's just unbelievably ignorant on so many levels I don't even know where to start :roll: :evil: Those two were psychos and even if they never played a single video game, they still would've carried out they're plan. Here's some more proof:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MaF9nbLo8as


Wed Feb 27, 2013 4:03 pm
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Post Re: Politics: Gun Control, Obamacare, tax increase...
I dunno, Vex. When the author of the article you cite to apparently debunk the link between violence and violent media content states "Maybe violent video games have some limited role in some real-life violence, maybe they don’t", that's not really an iron-clad enictment of my position. :lol:

Also, you once again link to a source (Tommy Christopher) who is more a slanted political commentator on public events rather than an empirical source. :roll:


Wed Feb 27, 2013 4:36 pm
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Post Re: Politics: Gun Control, Obamacare, tax increase...
30 seconds of advertising during the Superbowl was $4 million, those companies hoping to change your purchasing behavior, but 10, 100 or 1000 hours of first person shooter games can have no effect... Is that the prevailing thought?

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Wed Feb 27, 2013 4:38 pm
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Post Re: Politics: Gun Control, Obamacare, tax increase...
Johnny Larue wrote:
I dunno, Vex. When the author of the article you cite to apparently debunk the link between violence and violent media content states "Maybe violent video games have some limited role in some real-life violence, maybe they don’t", that's not really an iron-clad enictment of my position. :lol:

Also, you once again link to a source (Tommy Christopher) who is more a slanted political commentator on public events rather than an empirical source. :roll:

I know I read that part, but the article still goes to great lengths to point out that many of those studies that you put so much faith in are unreliable at best, maybe there is an extremely tiny link between violent media and real-life violence, but even so, unstable individuals will more then likely cause violence without exposure to any violent media, so I do not and never will believe for one second that Doom, The Matrix or Marilyn Manson had anything to do with Columbine(the killers actually thought Manson was a "poser").

I'm not real familiar with Tommy, so I wasn't aware of any such "bias" when I read through the article, though it certainly didn't sound very biased to me.


Wed Feb 27, 2013 5:23 pm
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Post Re: Politics: Gun Control, Obamacare, tax increase...
Vexer wrote:
Johnny Larue wrote:
I dunno, Vex. When the author of the article you cite to apparently debunk the link between violence and violent media content states "Maybe violent video games have some limited role in some real-life violence, maybe they don’t", that's not really an iron-clad enictment of my position. :lol:

Also, you once again link to a source (Tommy Christopher) who is more a slanted political commentator on public events rather than an empirical source. :roll:

I know I read that part, but the article still goes to great lengths to point out that many of those studies that you put so much faith in are unreliable at best, maybe there is an extremely tiny link between violent media and real-life violence, but even so, unstable individuals will more then likely cause violence without exposure to any violent media, so I do not and never will believe for one second that Doom, The Matrix or Marilyn Manson had anything to do with Columbine(the killers actually thought Manson was a "poser").

I'm not real familiar with Tommy, so I wasn't aware of any such "bias" when I read through the article, though it certainly didn't sound very biased to me.


He cites studies to "debunk" that I did not reference. The study I DID reference was put together by staff from from:
Department of Psychology, Iowa State University;
Department of Psychology, University of Wisconsin;
Colllege of Social & Behavioral Sciences, University of Arizona;
Institute for Social Research, University of Michigan;
Department of Psychology, University of North Carolina-Wilmington;
Department of Communication and Law and Society Program, University of California, Santa Barbara;
Department of Communication/Speech, University of California, Los Angeles;
College of Communication, University of Texas at Austin

I'm struggling to find a motive as to why they would put forth a study as biased as you contend. Note: this study was not a specific treatise on video games but on a wide variety of media influences.


Wed Feb 27, 2013 6:03 pm
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Post Re: Politics: Gun Control, Obamacare, tax increase...
Johnny Larue wrote:
Here's a study from several state university psychology departments, the abstractred conclusion of which is: "Research on violent television and films, video games, and music reveals unequivocal evidence that media violence increases the likelihood of aggressive and violent behavior in both immediate and long-term contexts."

http://www.psychology.iastate.edu/facul ... DHJLMW.pdf

That exposure to violent media increases violent tendencies in the short term is nothing new.

What interests me is whether or not it has a lasting effect beyond the obviously short-lived effect on mood and emotions, but that's where they appear more reserved. They describe a link between frequent exposure to media violence and long-term tendencies toward violent behavior. I would bet that people with a propensity for violence also have a propensity to seek out violent media, hence the link.

It is well understood that media input excites our emotional state, but emotions last for a matter of seconds. What has a direct and measurable causal influence on our long-term behaviors is a much more complicated issue. Even if the media could have such a formative influence, which is by no means a given, could it even be conclusively proven?

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Thu Feb 28, 2013 5:18 am
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Post Re: Politics: Gun Control, Obamacare, tax increase...
The lowest common denominators run amok in any society. This isn't reason enough to ban The Terminator or Total Recall, or even the loathsome Saw franchise.

But let's not pretend that the latter isn't "torture porn", because that is exactly what it is. Its reason for being is to provoke sadistic reactions in its target market of weirdos.

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Even if the media could have such a formative influence, which is by no means a given, could it even be conclusively proven?


It's hard. But remember Alex's "treatment" in Clockwork Orange? OK, it wasn't media, but it was delivered via the same format.

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Thu Feb 28, 2013 5:56 am
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Post Re: Politics: Gun Control, Obamacare, tax increase...
His treatment was an intravenous injection that induced nausea, which was then associated with violent images by a B.F. Skinner-esque behavioral conditioning experiment. Perhaps if you gave people candy every time they experienced violent media, there would be a better analogy here.

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Thu Feb 28, 2013 6:06 am
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Post Re: Politics: Gun Control, Obamacare, tax increase...
That doesn't contradict my point when you think about it.

Alex was programmed to see violence as a negative. It could easily be done the other way.

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Thu Feb 28, 2013 6:50 am
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Post Re: Politics: Gun Control, Obamacare, tax increase...
NotHughGrant wrote:
The lowest common denominators run amok in any society. This isn't reason enough to ban The Terminator or Total Recall, or even the loathsome Saw franchise.

But let's not pretend that the latter isn't "torture porn", because that is exactly what it is. Its reason for being is to provoke sadistic reactions in its target market of weirdos.

Quote:
Even if the media could have such a formative influence, which is by no means a given, could it even be conclusively proven?


It's hard. But remember Alex's "treatment" in Clockwork Orange? OK, it wasn't media, but it was delivered via the same format.

That's a bunch of BS, it's not meant to provoke "sadistic" reactions :roll: That's a nonsensical strawman argument if I ever heard one.


Thu Feb 28, 2013 1:31 pm
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Post Re: Politics: Gun Control, Obamacare, tax increase...
Vexer, what would you call the prolonged, contextless torture scenes in , say, Saw 3?

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Thu Feb 28, 2013 4:49 pm
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Post Re: Politics: Gun Control, Obamacare, tax increase...
NotHughGrant wrote:
Vexer, what would you call the prolonged, contextless torture scenes in , say, Saw 3?

Wouldn't know cause I haven't seen that particular entry in the series.


Thu Feb 28, 2013 4:50 pm
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Post Re: Politics: Gun Control, Obamacare, tax increase...
Vexer wrote:
NotHughGrant wrote:
Vexer, what would you call the prolonged, contextless torture scenes in , say, Saw 3?

Wouldn't know cause I haven't seen that particular entry in the series.


Please do and get back to me.

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Fri Mar 01, 2013 6:33 am
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Post Re: Politics: Gun Control, Obamacare, tax increase...
NotHughGrant wrote:
Vexer wrote:
NotHughGrant wrote:
Vexer, what would you call the prolonged, contextless torture scenes in , say, Saw 3?

Wouldn't know cause I haven't seen that particular entry in the series.


Please do and get back to me.

Yeah, i'm not really big on the Saw films and have no desire to see part 7 just to prove a point to you. I fail to imagine how it can possibly be any worse in terms of graphic content then the other six films in the series.


Fri Mar 01, 2013 12:48 pm
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Post Re: Politics: Gun Control, Obamacare, tax increase...
Part 7?


Fri Mar 01, 2013 2:32 pm
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