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Politics 
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Post Politics
I know this is a taboo subject but with a B.A. in Political Science I feel I must.

It just saddens me when people like Rush Limbaugh and Mitt Romney say they want President Obama to fail.

As Americans we are all in this together, if our president fails we all fail. I want Obama to succeed and if McCain was president I would want him to succeed as well. As the iconic John Wayne once said when referring to the newly elected John Kennedy " I didn't vote for him but I hope he does a good job."

As a nation we have a long way to go. I would also love to hear from the international people too and their perspective.

I really hope the topic is as civilized as possible.


Thu Mar 19, 2009 10:03 pm
Post Re: Politics
Rush Limbaugh has built a career on controversy and obnoxious tantrums. When Clinton was in office all quotes coming from Limbaugh rang exactly the same way: terrible job, immoral, so on and so on. His fan base eats it up and if he were to change his tune he'd be looking for work as announcer to a random minor league baseball team.

That being said... Romney and Limbaugh can want Obama to fail all they want. They're not bringing anything new to the table; the last 8 years with Bush were spent with countless commentators wishing for Bush to fail in all of his policies. People have gloriously short memories when it comes to Obama because, after all, why would anyone want him to fail? I spent 8 years with Bush hoping that he'd have an epiphany and reverse most of his policies; this is tantamount to hoping for failure.

As a progressive nation it's better to ask Romney and Limbaugh what they mean when they hope for Obama's failure and let it go with their answer; there isn't any reason to assume those that don't like Obama are against the country's best interests.


Thu Mar 19, 2009 10:17 pm
Post Re: Politics
Well, we did a great job on the religion thread, i was amazed at the civility and genuine interest in each others beliefs.

It would be cool if we could repeat the experience and I hope we can. Wearing my mod hat I'll watch this carefully.

My comments to follow later tonight. Kids to feed and all that :-)

Rob


Thu Mar 19, 2009 10:23 pm
Post Re: Politics
Rush's comments are the biggest non-story thus far in 2009. I'm shocked that people are shocked by his comments. Same old Rush. Besides...I don't think liberal pundits would have been cheering for McCain to succeed had he won the election.

As a self proclaimed libertarian I have trouble cheering on Obama myself. From a fiscal standpoint I think he's setting us up for disaster. If Obama has success pushing his agendas I think this country is in for a load of trouble. Between the bailouts, the stimulus package and the cabinents history of tax "mistakes" I don't see much to be happy about.


Thu Mar 19, 2009 10:28 pm
Post Re: Politics
To answer your query, majora, Limbaugh (and maybe Romney, but I'm not sure) wants Obama to fail if he's going to push a hard-left FDR agenda. If he's going to pull a Reagan, he'd like to see success. It's not that they're hoping the country fails; it's that they want it to happen under Obama's watch providing the agenda he pushes is against theirs. Trust me when I say that I am not defending him; I am merely explaining his points.

I'm moderate (though definitely a left-leaner), so I have no problems calling Obama out on what he's doing wrong. So far, he's issued orders to close Gitmo. That's good. He hired Tim Geithner. That's bad. He's signed into law a stimulus package. That's good. It's been noted to death by politics. That's bad. All in all, if Obama wants to live up to his reputation, he needs to take out the whipping stick a little bit more.


Fri Mar 20, 2009 3:41 am
Post Re: Politics
Obama is definitely not perfect. In fact when he first arrived in office 2 months ago he was all bipartisanship and pandered to the center, and now he has moved policy-wise to the left. Just like Bush did when he first entered office his rhetoric was centrist but he moved to the right.

The things about Obama I do like is his policy of creating jobs through working on Americas infrastructure, and his multilateralist approach to international politics. He just released a video to the people of Iran, which was deeply respectful to them and their government. that is a big step in reestablishing Americas reputation abroad.

The conservatives are having a bit of identity crisis, where Michael Steele is the RNC chairman but yet the base has more reverence for Rush Limbaugh. If their party wants to make a comeback in 2012 they need to stop following media personalities, and to think of Sarah Palin as an OK idea on paper that went bad and should forget about giving her another chance.


Fri Mar 20, 2009 10:22 am
Post Re: Politics
Hurm.

I have to confess, I'm horribly fascinated by american politics.

Obama isn't perfect - if he was, he would have dragged Bush, Cheney et al into court for war crimes already - but he is a hell of a lot better than what came before him.

The Rush "One thing we can all do is stop assuming that the way to beat [the Democrats] is with better policy ideas" Limbaugh wing of the Republican party is completely intellectually bankrupt, and they try their damndest to alienate everyone that's not.

Which is a bit shit.

Honestly though, I'm more worried about the systematic failure of the media, and its failure to keep the public informed with proper antagonistic journalism. It seems the 24h news network brought on utter vapidity in coverage, because when you have to fill that many hours with stuff, who has time for investigative journalism, or even doing anything more substantial than transcribing press releases and partisan hackery? Proper journalism might offend someone, and then you might lose ad revenue, or not get access to the Important People and have to work - and spend money - for your stories.

I think it was Roosewelt that was famous for saying "You've convinced me. Now make me." In a democracy, this is pretty much the way things should work, but how can the public do this when their source of information is busy choking on the authorities' semen?

It is a conundrum.


Fri Mar 20, 2009 4:29 pm
Post Re: Politics
You know, posting in any forum is hard enough, day by day. You tell yourself certain things, like 'At least I get along with most of the people', and 'Well, there's no threads about Jessica Lange's face', or 'At least there's not a thread about politics'.


I am bitterly resigned.




Obama is the man. Just sayin'


Fri Mar 20, 2009 5:13 pm
Post Re: Politics
Soren Hoglund wrote:
Hurm.

I have to confess, I'm horribly fascinated by american politics.

Obama isn't perfect - if he was, he would have dragged Bush, Cheney et al into court for war crimes already - but he is a hell of a lot better than what came before him.

The Rush "One thing we can all do is stop assuming that the way to beat [the Democrats] is with better policy ideas" Limbaugh wing of the Republican party is completely intellectually bankrupt, and they try their damndest to alienate everyone that's not.

Which is a bit shit.

Honestly though, I'm more worried about the systematic failure of the media, and its failure to keep the public informed with proper antagonistic journalism. It seems the 24h news network brought on utter vapidity in coverage, because when you have to fill that many hours with stuff, who has time for investigative journalism, or even doing anything more substantial than transcribing press releases and partisan hackery? Proper journalism might offend someone, and then you might lose ad revenue, or not get access to the Important People and have to work - and spend money - for your stories.

I think it was Roosewelt that was famous for saying "You've convinced me. Now make me." In a democracy, this is pretty much the way things should work, but how can the public do this when their source of information is busy choking on the authorities' semen?

It is a conundrum.


I believe the only American journalist who is actually a "journalist" is Bill Moyers he is not afraid to ask questions that need to be asked and answered. He did a documentary of sorts investigating how the mainstream media was complicit during the run up to the Iraq war. Even when Scott McClellan's book "What Happened" came out a lot of journalists had to defend their reporting, there were a few who agreed that they were complicit including Katie Couric.

Tim Russert was the poster boy for "asking the tough questions" when he himself was just as guilty at sleeping with the politicians. His replacement David Gregory is still adamant about asking the right questions before when he is just a megaphone for the politicians for whom he is suppose to hold their feet to the fire.

I believe that as a founding father Thomas Jefferson just about covered everything that needed to be covered when forming a free democratic state.
Thomas Jefferson wrote:
The basis of our government being the opinion of the people, the very first object should be to keep that right; and were it left to me to decide whether we should have a government without newspapers or newspapers without a government, I should not hesitate a moment to prefer the latter


he also stated..
Quote:
Our first object should therefore be, to leave open to him all the avenues of truth. The most effectual hitherto found, is freedom of the press. It is therefore, the first shut up by those who fear the investigation of their actions


It is just extremely sad with the death of newspapers imminent and the death of journalistic integrity already here.


Fri Mar 20, 2009 10:06 pm
Assistant Second Unit Director

Joined: Mon Mar 02, 2009 4:25 pm
Posts: 79
Post Re: Politics
Evenflow8112 wrote:
You know, posting in any forum is hard enough, day by day. You tell yourself certain things, like 'At least I get along with most of the people', and 'Well, there's no threads about Jessica Lange's face', or 'At least there's not a thread about politics'.


I am bitterly resigned.

Obama is the man. Just sayin'


I tend to agree. Politics is the one of the better ways to kill civility online. Both sides are just as guilty imo. We saw a ton of vitriolic hate heaped on a man for 8 years, and now the other side smells blood because they have had to deal with being a national punch line.


Sat Mar 21, 2009 11:05 am
Profile
Post Re: Politics
hgs0814 wrote:
I tend to agree. Politics is the one of the better ways to kill civility online. Both sides are just as guilty imo. We saw a ton of vitriolic hate heaped on a man for 8 years, and now the other side smells blood because they have had to deal with being a national punch line.


I know I took a big risk. With the United States beginning the dawn of a new republic, I think it is important to have political discourse here, no matter where your convictions lie, just be respectful of other peoples opinions. We do not want to turn into the political analysts we see on TV yelling over top of each other.

I guess I just have a lot of faith in the people who visit this forum.


Sat Mar 21, 2009 8:49 pm
Cinematographer
User avatar

Joined: Sun Mar 01, 2009 9:17 pm
Posts: 525
Post Re: Politics
When Bush was in office and everyone was waiting for the country to fall into ruin, no one spoke up. Now that Obama is at the helm, why are people suddenly so sensitive to criticism? Is it because of the honeymoon period, or is it because people are just hypocritical? I think it's a bit of both.

Rush Limbaugh... is Rush Limbaugh. Don't even justify what he says with a reply. Same goes for the majority of Fox news and MSNBC.

Anchors I will watch: Jim Lehrer, Brian Williams, Anderson Cooper (b/c of Katrina reporting), Campbell Brown (mainly out of respect for the Tucker Bounds/Sarah Palin thing), Lou Dobbs, Tom Brokaw

As for the fear of a flame war b/c of a politics thread, I think that we are safe based on our performance in the religion thread and the fact that there isn't an election taking place.


Sun Mar 22, 2009 3:53 am
Profile
Post Re: Politics
darthyoshi wrote:
When Bush was in office and everyone was waiting for the country to fall into ruin, no one spoke up.


Nonsense. Bush had eight solid years of avid support from not just Fox News and Limbaugh and the like but NBC, CNN, and any other outlet so frequently derided as being 'left'. Jon Stewart may have been busy breaking into arguments with Dick Cheney's wife but Brian Williams and the rest of the talking head gang was no less in the administration's pocket. The right wing spent untold resources deconstructing the left-wing media but that same media never tired of covering Bush's journeys back and forth, waving from a tent in Iraq, smiling for the camera with a widow. That man was supported by lots of little subtle means and tons of gigantic, overt gestures of support. Bush will be remembered positively not just by Ann Coulter and her silly brigade of furious white folk but everyone wearing a sandwich board reading "4 More Years" at the RNC.

Obama got into office alongside his face on t-shirts, on coins, on posters... a little bit of (hopefully) short-lived "ENOUGH IS ENOUGH" is tolerable. If he were to walk door to door punching every liberal he met in the face he'd still be loved by the people he voted for. I haven't heard many right-wingers turning around and cursing Bush after his 8 years. He had supporters and still has lots of people singing his praises.


Sun Mar 22, 2009 5:03 am
Post Re: Politics
majoraphasia wrote:
Nonsense. Bush had eight solid years of avid support from not just Fox News and Limbaugh and the like but NBC, CNN, and any other outlet so frequently derided as being 'left'. Jon Stewart may have been busy breaking into arguments with Dick Cheney's wife but Brian Williams and the rest of the talking head gang was no less in the administration's pocket. The right wing spent untold resources deconstructing the left-wing media but that same media never tired of covering Bush's journeys back and forth, waving from a tent in Iraq, smiling for the camera with a widow. That man was supported by lots of little subtle means and tons of gigantic, overt gestures of support. Bush will be remembered positively not just by Ann Coulter and her silly brigade of furious white folk but everyone wearing a sandwich board reading "4 More Years" at the RNC.

Obama got into office alongside his face on t-shirts, on coins, on posters... a little bit of (hopefully) short-lived "ENOUGH IS ENOUGH" is tolerable. If he were to walk door to door punching every liberal he met in the face he'd still be loved by the people he voted for. I haven't heard many right-wingers turning around and cursing Bush after his 8 years. He had supporters and still has lots of people singing his praises.


While it is true that many of the major networks were in the Bush administrations pocket and were still labeled "liberal media" some of the journalists had to hold back some of their investigations because the corporations they worked for felt that it would look unfavorably on the Bush administration. I think we should cut the journalists a tiny bit of slack because they are controlled by the corporations they work for.

If you watch the CPAC conference from last year where Bush attended he got a standing ovation from conservatives, If you watch the CPAC conference from this year where Rush Limbaugh spoke whenever Bush's name was spoken people booed.
They will claim he wasn't a true conservative. When in reality they seem to be fair weather fans. while its true that a lot of people will sing the praises of Bush the conservative leadership are quick to denounce him and his policies.

On to the topic of Ann Coulter for those that despise that bitch, her new book Guilty: Liberal Victims and their Assault on America has sold only 100,500 copies compared to her two previous books that sold 279,100 and 396,600 copies. It could signal the end of her career of making false claims and saying things that make you wonder how anyone can take her seriously.


Sun Mar 22, 2009 8:24 pm
Post Re: Politics
This isn't a post directly related to Politics but I didn't want to start a new thread, as an Australian we are obviously subjected to a lot of American television so I was just wondering what you guys thought of Obama appearing on a talk show like Leno the other night (non-pc comments aside)?

Personally and i'm not alone but a lot of us thought it was tacky and unprofessional for someone in the position he is to do this. It feels like he is still campaigning or something.


Sun Mar 22, 2009 11:40 pm
Cinematographer
User avatar

Joined: Sun Mar 01, 2009 9:17 pm
Posts: 525
Post Re: Politics
majoraphasia wrote:
Nonsense. Bush had eight solid years of avid support from not just Fox News and Limbaugh and the like but NBC, CNN, and any other outlet so frequently derided as being 'left'. Jon Stewart may have been busy breaking into arguments with Dick Cheney's wife but Brian Williams and the rest of the talking head gang was no less in the administration's pocket. The right wing spent untold resources deconstructing the left-wing media but that same media never tired of covering Bush's journeys back and forth, waving from a tent in Iraq, smiling for the camera with a widow. That man was supported by lots of little subtle means and tons of gigantic, overt gestures of support. Bush will be remembered positively not just by Ann Coulter and her silly brigade of furious white folk but everyone wearing a sandwich board reading "4 More Years" at the RNC.

Obama got into office alongside his face on t-shirts, on coins, on posters... a little bit of (hopefully) short-lived "ENOUGH IS ENOUGH" is tolerable. If he were to walk door to door punching every liberal he met in the face he'd still be loved by the people he voted for. I haven't heard many right-wingers turning around and cursing Bush after his 8 years. He had supporters and still has lots of people singing his praises.


When I said people, I was not referring to the news media. I think second lowest approval rating of all time speaks for itself. Towards the end of his presidency, especially during the election, the RNC did not even want Bush anywhere near McCain for fear of alienating voters. However, I think that without Bush's presidency and the backlash that resulted, Obama would not be in office.

I also thought that Jon Stewart was very civil with Dick Cheney's wife. The Darth Vader doll that she brought with her was silly, and brought a kind of lightheartedness to the interview. Stewart realized that he wasn't talking to Cheney, he was talking to his wife.


Mon Mar 23, 2009 1:42 am
Profile
Post Re: Politics
darthyoshi wrote:

I also thought that Jon Stewart was very civil with Dick Cheney's wife. The Darth Vader doll that she brought with her was silly, and brought a kind of lightheartedness to the interview. Stewart realized that he wasn't talking to Cheney, he was talking to his wife.


Was he? Maybe... I've only memory to serve me and if I've learned anything from Memento... . If I'm remembering at all accurately (and I have no doubt that Youtube could set me right if I only cared enough to find the video) he asked her if Dick was "secretive, stubborn, and duplicitous" at home or if he kept that kind of shady behavior to the office of Vice President alone. Her response was "What kind of question is that?" Jon Stewart is many things, most of them good, but civil isn't one of them. But that's his job, I suppose.


Mon Mar 23, 2009 5:00 am
Post Re: Politics
Arsenal84 wrote:
If you watch the CPAC conference from last year where Bush attended he got a standing ovation from conservatives, If you watch the CPAC conference from this year where Rush Limbaugh spoke whenever Bush's name was spoken people booed.
They will claim he wasn't a true conservative. When in reality they seem to be fair weather fans. while its true that a lot of people will sing the praises of Bush the conservative leadership are quick to denounce him and his policies.


I can't speak for past years but it's my understanding that CPAC this year was attended by many libertarians to see Ron Paul speak. That could account for the Bush booing. Last year Dubya spoke so I'd assume that it would draw in his supporters. It's not about being fair weather. Look at Bush's approval ratings the past few years. It takes more than liberals and Democrats to get numbers that low.


Mon Mar 23, 2009 9:40 am
Post Re: Politics
Quote:
This isn't a post directly related to Politics but I didn't want to start a new thread, as an Australian we are obviously subjected to a lot of American television so I was just wondering what you guys thought of Obama appearing on a talk show like Leno the other night (non-pc comments aside)?

Personally and i'm not alone but a lot of us thought it was tacky and unprofessional for someone in the position he is to do this. It feels like he is still campaigning or something.


IMO the nature of Obama's politics is a certain extent of transparency versus concentrated campaigning. Everyone is human, including the president, and shouldn't be obligated to hide that regardless of their job. I think a sense of humor is very important in a person, and someone who takes everything way too seriously isn't a good leader. In a world where everything is scripted, such an appearance is indicative that the man is not afraid of talking and being honest without a prompter. If he can be so open about himself, chances are he'll be more open about his policies.

And with regards to the PC comments, it is a :lol: comedy show :lol: after all, he obviously meant no offence. Those with uber-delicate sensibilities or a hypocritical bearing (because all of us have made a joke in that fashion at least once in our lives) or no sense of humour.. shouldn't be watching such kind of television let alone criticising it.


Mon Mar 23, 2009 11:09 am
Post Re: Politics
Politics in thirty seconds. Go.


I admire Obama, but I think his statements against the Republican party and understated assault on the Bush administration were given too soon. No doubt they are uncooperative, but the camel's back broke easily.

I love the stimulus bill, but the information on some of the spending being left-leaning and in anyway feeding into more ideological concerns is ridiculous. No money should be wasted. None.

I agree with Democrats more often than not, but I think the Republican paty has some points. Their stance on gay marriage is misrepresented in specific ways.

Rush Limbaugh is not the president of the Republicans, or anyone. He is a blowfish.

The election of Barack Obama will make Green Day album sales plummet tremendously.

Barack Obama is not our 'black' president. He's our president. He is the #1 figure in America right now. No side has a right to 'claim' him as a cultural saviour or negate his influence based on his race. It's entirely unimportant.

Barack Obama and poodle = best presidential photo ever.

Who cares about special olympics comments on Leno? Petty. I couldn't care less.

Jon Stewart, as of now, has leaped from funny guy to leading political advocate. He is courageous, informed, and has a position of power over the next four years. Oh, and he's funny, too ;)

AIG should not be renamed. It's workers should be airlifted to Chernobyl and stranded there, bound from head to toe.


I think any argument shoul be civil, but bold and articulate. Anyone who disagrees can go to hell :)


Mon Mar 23, 2009 9:36 pm
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