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Piracy 
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Post Re: Pirate or not to Pirate?
hey zedferret,
some people have already incriminated themselves, mate. :D
the ones who were willing to that is.
that just hands them the case doesn't it?

so no i do not pirate, i think its disgusting.


Last edited by aameen on Sat Mar 28, 2009 11:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.



Sat Mar 28, 2009 9:15 pm
Post Re: Pirate or not to Pirate?
I would encourage everyone to be very careful on this thread

The defense that you see films at the movies will not work in a court of law. What you'll hear is that buying candy every day does not give you the right to walk into Target and steal candy.

Downloading movies and music is illegal and telling the world that you occasionally do it on a forum is probably not that smart

I'm not making judgments about downloading. I'm just making the case that sharing your activities on a forum is, well.....

Have fun
Rob


Sat Mar 28, 2009 10:34 pm
Post Re: Pirate or not to Pirate?
And please don't request or link to any torrents or whatever. We don't want James getting sued.


Sat Mar 28, 2009 11:08 pm
Post Re: Pirate or not to Pirate?
http://blog.wired.com/27bstroke6/2009/03/obama-sides-wit.html

Thank you Obama :roll:

@ Zedferret: If you live in the States you're going to be screwed.

@ Everyone Else: Lets all mass migrate to Sweden 8-)


Sun Mar 29, 2009 7:38 am
Post Re: Pirate or not to Pirate?
Pirate or not pirate is not really a black and white discussion. There's much more at play here. There was an interesting and lengthy discussion about this in the Open Forum:
http://reelviews.net/reelviewsforum/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=51


Sun Mar 29, 2009 12:09 pm
Director
User avatar

Joined: Wed Mar 11, 2009 3:31 pm
Posts: 1142
Post Re: Piracy
It also depends on what sort of market your located in.

I live in Delaware and we have a fair number of films to choose from. However, when Oscar season comes around, I usually can't find a showtime locally, only near Philly, which is a good hour away with no traffic. Two years ago, I wanted to see "The Lookout", but no theaters around me had it, and I had to wait a while til I got to see it. This year, films like "The Wrestler" and "Slumdog Millionaire" didn't come to town til VERY late, I think "The Wrestler" came to Delaware theaters the weekend of the Oscars, which is ludacris. I hate piracy as well, but, as people have mentioned, its a very tough thing to avoid, it is very tempting. What I'm finding useful is going to my local library and checking out films for free, they actually have a large selection of good films that I've been able to get my hands on.

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Sun Mar 29, 2009 5:31 pm
Profile WWW
Post Re: Piracy
I can see piracy having a very bright future if the outdated reactions towards it are not changed.

This current generation of teenagers have grown up with broadband internet and by default piracy. The only people that do not engage in piracy are those whom lack the technical knowledge to do so - generally parents whom understand so little of these new technologies. For all the parents out there I am sure that you're all a lot more concerned with what your teenagers are drinking opposed to what they are downloading - thus creating an overall nonchalant attitude over the issue. No parent is going to ground their 15 year old just because they downloaded a pirated copy of Underworld Evolution.

The heavy handed approach adopted by studios haven't helped either. They all help to establish a David vs Goliath notion where the evil corporate overlords with their draconian measures are trying to stifle out the liberal practices of file sharing over P2P connections. For many this is turning into an increasingly populous struggle to maintain their perceived individualistic rights over the internet and their usage of it.

There has been well documented cases of cyber attacks carried out to against companies such as Media Defender that try to fight piracy head on while individual investigators have also been targeted with their personal details exposed to the public. Although I by no means condone such attacks, one cannot deny the general public anger and outcry over the current mailed fist approach adopted.

The authorities needs to realise that the issue is no longer about the ethics of downloading copy right media. It has now extended to encompass the very notions of public file sharing over the internet ie torrents. Many feel that this is their right and privilege regardless of the files distributed.


Sun Mar 29, 2009 11:21 pm
Cinematographer
User avatar

Joined: Sun Mar 01, 2009 9:17 pm
Posts: 529
Post Re: Piracy
First of all, yes, I have pirated before. Mainly out of convenience in that I have the movies forever, I can put them on my Ipod, and I can watch them whenever.

Here are some interesting statistics however. A few months ago, Itunes reported that in its 5 years of existence, it has reached 3 trillion song downloads. mininova.com, one of the largest bittorent websites, also announced that in 3 years of existence, it has reached 5 trillion torrent downloads. And that's just one website; don't forget about thepiratebay and torrentspy.

Speaking of thepiratebay, has anyone been paying attention to the trial in Sweden? I for one am very interested in the outcome. I feel that it will dictate the tide of the piracy battle for years to come. I'm not too optimistic though...


Mon Mar 30, 2009 3:06 am
Profile
Assistant Second Unit Director

Joined: Tue Mar 10, 2009 1:37 pm
Posts: 108
Location: Jakarta, Indonesia
Post Re: Piracy
When I used to live in San Francisco Bay Area for 6 years, there was hardly any good reason to pirate. In SF Bay area, people are spoilt with a good mix of mainstream, indie and foreign films on their local cinemas with most american films by default premiering in US. I love that some theaters still play old movies and in fact, there's a theater in Palo Alto that only play old, classic Black and White films. With Netflix, renting DVDs are very convenient and they have a great library too. If for some reasons I want to watch a Foreign/Hong Kong/Japanese/Korean films that don't receive distribution in US, I can simply order them legally online on websites like Yesasia and the dvds will arrive within a week.

Now, I'm back in Indonesia and the situation cannot be more different. Like Sebastian in Peru, Films tend to arrive late in cinemas (unless it's a blockbuster type which play simultaneously worldwide) and you can hardly find a critically acclaimed indie/foreign film in cinema. Furthermore, this conservative asian country has a government run censorship board which acts as a moral police and they will not hesitate to cut any offending sex and violence plus any politically sensitive scenes or ban the film completely. This results in inconvenient "jump cuts" and makes it impossible to watch the films as the filmmakers intend. If the films are released on DVD, they will be in the censor approved version and their price is about US$5-$10 (too high for any common Indonesians to afford). Any attempt to import dvds from overseas is futile as all incoming packages are checked by customs and if they find the dvds are not approved by censors, they will either block the shipment or try to extort you.

However, walk into some local markets here and the pirates will remedy this situation for you - you can easily find numerous good quality pirated DVDs (you can find any title, if you look hard enough) that cost roughly US$.50 / 50 cents. Or if you are too lazy, there's always the online piracy option. Now, I think piracy is immoral and I don't condone it. But in places like Peru and Indonesia, where there's hardly any alternative and the temptation to pirate is so great, many indonesians just do it.


Thu Apr 02, 2009 11:52 am
Profile
Post Re: Piracy
I've never pirated. My lil brother brought a pirated movie into my house once (was NOT happy about that), but the quality was so bad that we went to the store to rent it immediately.

Generally, I'm the stupid one here when it comes to movies and movie topics (I'm sure many of you've figured this out) but let me ask the following question:

What's the difference between "pirating", i.e. viewing a movie without paying for it, and, say, going to the library to check it out? Is it an ownership issue?? Checking the DVD out from the library wouldn't seem that different from sneaking in the back door of the theater. Nobody is "owning" anything, but the value is given/taken for free. Maybe it's okay when the gov distributes it...

One thing that frustrates me (pi$$e$ me off is more like it) is the specialized drafting software that I "own". Under the "I Agree to These Terms" mini-text I can't sell it to another person. It's just mine to view unless another site license is created and sold. I'm sure James has encountered this with design/drafting software for E-systems.

Is that where this is all headed with movies? Is there any way to control it at all?


Thu Apr 02, 2009 12:37 pm
Post Re: Piracy
Awf Hand wrote:
I've never pirated. My lil brother brought a pirated movie into my house once (was NOT happy about that), but the quality was so bad that we went to the store to rent it immediately.

Generally, I'm the stupid one here when it comes to movies and movie topics (I'm sure many of you've figured this out) but let me ask the following question:

What's the difference between "pirating", i.e. viewing a movie without paying for it, and, say, going to the library to check it out? Is it an ownership issue?? Checking the DVD out from the library wouldn't seem that different from sneaking in the back door of the theater. Nobody is "owning" anything, but the value is given/taken for free. Maybe it's okay when the gov distributes it...

One thing that frustrates me (pi$$e$ me off is more like it) is the specialized drafting software that I "own". Under the "I Agree to These Terms" mini-text I can't sell it to another person. It's just mine to view unless another site license is created and sold. I'm sure James has encountered this with design/drafting software for E-systems.

Is that where this is all headed with movies? Is there any way to control it at all?


Way I understand it is that the library buys the DVD's and since they're the legal owners of it they can do whatever they want with them and charge however they want for it.


Thu Apr 02, 2009 1:57 pm
Post Re: Piracy
Awf Hand wrote:
I've never pirated. My lil brother brought a pirated movie into my house once (was NOT happy about that), but the quality was so bad that we went to the store to rent it immediately.

Generally, I'm the stupid one here when it comes to movies and movie topics (I'm sure many of you've figured this out) but let me ask the following question:

What's the difference between "pirating", i.e. viewing a movie without paying for it, and, say, going to the library to check it out? Is it an ownership issue?? Checking the DVD out from the library wouldn't seem that different from sneaking in the back door of the theater. Nobody is "owning" anything, but the value is given/taken for free. Maybe it's okay when the gov distributes it...

One thing that frustrates me (pi$$e$ me off is more like it) is the specialized drafting software that I "own". Under the "I Agree to These Terms" mini-text I can't sell it to another person. It's just mine to view unless another site license is created and sold. I'm sure James has encountered this with design/drafting software for E-systems.

Is that where this is all headed with movies? Is there any way to control it at all?

I blogged about this a couple of years ago:

The public library system is destroying the film and book industries. Don’t believe me? Consider this.

I want to see a new DVD release. I could go to Blockbuster and pay my good honest American dollars to rent the movie, thus paying my dues to the creators of the film and rendering the cycle of capitalism complete.

But no! There is another option–one that allows you to get this movie for free using the power of the internet! How can one resist such a temptation? Am I talking about illegal filesharing? No! I’m talking about the public library system.

If I want to see a new film, I simply log on to the internet, select the movie I would like to see, and click on it. Then, I pick it up from the public library 2 blocks from my house. All without paying the movie studios or their hard-working employees a dime!

You might say, “but Trevor, the libraries pay for their copy originally!” Balderdash! So do illegal filesharers who rip a DVD in the first place. The library system is no different.

It’s not just movies either. The public library system in this county alone has hundreds of copies of the new Harry Potter book. Each copy is undoubtedly read by dozens of people. That comes out to thousands and thousands of copies of the book that consumers don’t have to buy! Poor, poor Mrs. Rowling.

Now you skeptics will say, it’s legal to get movies from the library, and it’s not from the internet. But what if it was the other way around. What if the library offered downloads of new films, and there was an illegal underground network of DVD sharing instead? This DVD-sharing network is robbing the movie studios legal or not.

The bottom line is, public libraries are destroying the film and book industries and we must stop them at all costs!


Thu Apr 02, 2009 3:29 pm
Post Re: Piracy
Ickibod wrote:
I pirate movies - it's immoral and I'd rather not to do it, but there are a number of reasons why I do:

-Money - I just can't afford to buy a new movie every week.
-Unlimited access - I can download as many movies as I want at the pace that I want.
-Huge selection - Other than Netflix (which, sadly, doesn't operate in Canada), there's no way to get such a vast selection of movies. Within an hour, I could be watching a movie that isn't available in any stores in the city.
-The gap between theaters and home video releases - I don't know why the industry insists on sticking with this tactic. It's incredibly annoying to have to wait months after the theatrical run has finished to view a movie at home.
-Permanency - I almost never delete what I pirate. I like the idea of having all these movies at my fingertips, with me wherever I go.
-Convenience - No more going to the video store. Simple.

Once the film industry bridges all those gaps, I'll start buying more DVDs. I still buy Blu-Rays and the occasional DVD when it's a bargain, but other than that I'm stuck with piracy.


These are all lame excuses to support your theft of intellectual property. You're talking about movies. It's not like you're starving and struggling to put food on the table and stealing a loaf of bread.

Boo hoo...I can't afford to buy a new movie every week.

Welocme to the real world.


Thu Apr 02, 2009 5:08 pm
Post Re: Piracy
when i saw this topic, i thought i had lots to say and was planning to write, but reading all the posts, i realized that everything i wanted to say has been said over and over :-) so maybe only one question to the forum: I am sure this is balderdas.. but how is DVD region coding preventing piracy? as the studios like to say. If its downloaded, its an data file, if its a pirated copy of of DVDm i have yet to hear of pirates copying region encoded copies.

Or is it that only the rest of the world understands this, except studios?


Thu Apr 02, 2009 6:20 pm
Site Admin

Joined: Thu Jan 22, 2009 10:55 pm
Posts: 3059
Location: Mount Laurel, NJ, USA
Post Re: Piracy
The term "copyright" needs to be re-defined for the digital age. The root of the problem is that we're clinging to laws that were never intended for the technological/global era in which we now live. Until lawmakers sit down and re-think the entire legal code surrounding copyrights (I'm not holding my breath), there will continue to be bizarre loopholes and gray areas.


Thu Apr 02, 2009 6:57 pm
Profile WWW
Post Re: Piracy
James Berardinelli wrote:
The term "copyright" needs to be re-defined for the digital age. The root of the problem is that we're clinging to laws that were never intended for the technological/global era in which we now live. Until lawmakers sit down and re-think the entire legal code surrounding copyrights (I'm not holding my breath), there will continue to be bizarre loopholes and gray areas.
James is right. The last major update of copyright law was in the 1970s, and (I know I'm not imagining this) Internet wasn't a widespread convenience back then. Copyright itself is a relatively recent phenomenon, one that's struggled to adapt to every new form of technology that's arrived since its implementation.

If you download a piece of intellectual property and digitally manipulate it until it's barely recognizable, who owns the end result? Can pure information be owned? Does copyright itself even have a big enough net benefit to justify its existence? These are all problems that must be addressed.


Thu Apr 02, 2009 7:09 pm
Post Re: Piracy
Trevor wrote:
I blogged about this a couple of years ago:

The public library system is destroying the film and book industries. Don’t believe me? Consider this.

I want to see a new DVD release. I could go to Blockbuster and pay my good honest American dollars to rent the movie, thus paying my dues to the creators of the film and rendering the cycle of capitalism complete.

But no! There is another option–one that allows you to get this movie for free using the power of the internet! How can one resist such a temptation? Am I talking about illegal filesharing? No! I’m talking about the public library system.

If I want to see a new film, I simply log on to the internet, select the movie I would like to see, and click on it. Then, I pick it up from the public library 2 blocks from my house. All without paying the movie studios or their hard-working employees a dime!

You might say, “but Trevor, the libraries pay for their copy originally!” Balderdash! So do illegal filesharers who rip a DVD in the first place. The library system is no different.

It’s not just movies either. The public library system in this county alone has hundreds of copies of the new Harry Potter book. Each copy is undoubtedly read by dozens of people. That comes out to thousands and thousands of copies of the book that consumers don’t have to buy! Poor, poor Mrs. Rowling.

Now you skeptics will say, it’s legal to get movies from the library, and it’s not from the internet. But what if it was the other way around. What if the library offered downloads of new films, and there was an illegal underground network of DVD sharing instead? This DVD-sharing network is robbing the movie studios legal or not.

The bottom line is, public libraries are destroying the film and book industries and we must stop them at all costs!


Why thanks Trevor! I feel a lil bit less stupid than I thought I was.

Back to my regularily scheduled banalities.


Thu Apr 02, 2009 10:30 pm
Director
User avatar

Joined: Wed Mar 11, 2009 3:31 pm
Posts: 1142
Post Re: Piracy
Trevor wrote:
Awf Hand wrote:
I've never pirated. My lil brother brought a pirated movie into my house once (was NOT happy about that), but the quality was so bad that we went to the store to rent it immediately.

Generally, I'm the stupid one here when it comes to movies and movie topics (I'm sure many of you've figured this out) but let me ask the following question:

What's the difference between "pirating", i.e. viewing a movie without paying for it, and, say, going to the library to check it out? Is it an ownership issue?? Checking the DVD out from the library wouldn't seem that different from sneaking in the back door of the theater. Nobody is "owning" anything, but the value is given/taken for free. Maybe it's okay when the gov distributes it...

One thing that frustrates me (pi$$e$ me off is more like it) is the specialized drafting software that I "own". Under the "I Agree to These Terms" mini-text I can't sell it to another person. It's just mine to view unless another site license is created and sold. I'm sure James has encountered this with design/drafting software for E-systems.

Is that where this is all headed with movies? Is there any way to control it at all?

I blogged about this a couple of years ago:

The public library system is destroying the film and book industries. Don’t believe me? Consider this.

I want to see a new DVD release. I could go to Blockbuster and pay my good honest American dollars to rent the movie, thus paying my dues to the creators of the film and rendering the cycle of capitalism complete.

But no! There is another option–one that allows you to get this movie for free using the power of the internet! How can one resist such a temptation? Am I talking about illegal filesharing? No! I’m talking about the public library system.

If I want to see a new film, I simply log on to the internet, select the movie I would like to see, and click on it. Then, I pick it up from the public library 2 blocks from my house. All without paying the movie studios or their hard-working employees a dime!

You might say, “but Trevor, the libraries pay for their copy originally!” Balderdash! So do illegal filesharers who rip a DVD in the first place. The library system is no different.

It’s not just movies either. The public library system in this county alone has hundreds of copies of the new Harry Potter book. Each copy is undoubtedly read by dozens of people. That comes out to thousands and thousands of copies of the book that consumers don’t have to buy! Poor, poor Mrs. Rowling.

Now you skeptics will say, it’s legal to get movies from the library, and it’s not from the internet. But what if it was the other way around. What if the library offered downloads of new films, and there was an illegal underground network of DVD sharing instead? This DVD-sharing network is robbing the movie studios legal or not.

The bottom line is, public libraries are destroying the film and book industries and we must stop them at all costs!



Wow, I went from thinking I was getting a good deal from the public library system to now a dirty pirate hooker after that post. Thanks, Trevor. :(.

_________________
My blog: http://dunkindan89.blogspot.com/

UPDATED 8/26 - Top 100 List *Updated*


Thu Apr 02, 2009 11:26 pm
Profile WWW
Post Re: Piracy
The bottom line is that if you make a good enough product - be it movies, music or games people will end up paying for it. I don't buy into the bs that every piece of software downloaded is a sales lost crap. A recent example the movie Taken; DVD rips of that was floating on the internet six month before the movie actually hit the states and it still went on to make over $100 million. Stardock does not even bother with putting protection on their games and they're doing just fine with a very loyal fanbase. You can't treat all your customers as pirates till proven innocent. Just look at the game Spores and the back lash its DRM policies triggered.

I'm am certain every single forum user here have pirated something in their lives and some are probably not even aware that they did it. There is no moral defense for piracy full stop. You cannot justify it on logistical or economical grounds. But if you're cool with be being a pirate then hey more power to you; most people are...


Fri Apr 03, 2009 12:22 am
Post Re: Piracy
Trevor wrote:
Awf Hand wrote:
I've never pirated. My lil brother brought a pirated movie into my house once (was NOT happy about that), but the quality was so bad that we went to the store to rent it immediately.

Generally, I'm the stupid one here when it comes to movies and movie topics (I'm sure many of you've figured this out) but let me ask the following question:

What's the difference between "pirating", i.e. viewing a movie without paying for it, and, say, going to the library to check it out? Is it an ownership issue?? Checking the DVD out from the library wouldn't seem that different from sneaking in the back door of the theater. Nobody is "owning" anything, but the value is given/taken for free. Maybe it's okay when the gov distributes it...

One thing that frustrates me (pi$$e$ me off is more like it) is the specialized drafting software that I "own". Under the "I Agree to These Terms" mini-text I can't sell it to another person. It's just mine to view unless another site license is created and sold. I'm sure James has encountered this with design/drafting software for E-systems.

Is that where this is all headed with movies? Is there any way to control it at all?

I blogged about this a couple of years ago:

The public library system is destroying the film and book industries. Don’t believe me? Consider this.

I want to see a new DVD release. I could go to Blockbuster and pay my good honest American dollars to rent the movie, thus paying my dues to the creators of the film and rendering the cycle of capitalism complete.

But no! There is another option–one that allows you to get this movie for free using the power of the internet! How can one resist such a temptation? Am I talking about illegal filesharing? No! I’m talking about the public library system.

If I want to see a new film, I simply log on to the internet, select the movie I would like to see, and click on it. Then, I pick it up from the public library 2 blocks from my house. All without paying the movie studios or their hard-working employees a dime!

You might say, “but Trevor, the libraries pay for their copy originally!” Balderdash! So do illegal filesharers who rip a DVD in the first place. The library system is no different.

It’s not just movies either. The public library system in this county alone has hundreds of copies of the new Harry Potter book. Each copy is undoubtedly read by dozens of people. That comes out to thousands and thousands of copies of the book that consumers don’t have to buy! Poor, poor Mrs. Rowling.

Now you skeptics will say, it’s legal to get movies from the library, and it’s not from the internet. But what if it was the other way around. What if the library offered downloads of new films, and there was an illegal underground network of DVD sharing instead? This DVD-sharing network is robbing the movie studios legal or not.

The bottom line is, public libraries are destroying the film and book industries and we must stop them at all costs!


I'm pretty sure Trevor was being facetious since libraries have been around for quite some time and they haven't destroyed the book industry.

new_xieland wrote:
The bottom line is that if you make a good enough product - be it movies, music or games people will end up paying for it. I don't buy into the bs that every piece of software downloaded is a sales lost crap. A recent example the movie Taken; DVD rips of that was floating on the internet six month before the movie actually hit the states and it still went on to make over $100 million. Stardock does not even bother with putting protection on their games and they're doing just fine with a very loyal fanbase. You can't treat all your customers as pirates till proven innocent. Just look at the game Spores and the back lash its DRM policies triggered.

I'm am certain every single forum user here have pirated something in their lives and some are probably not even aware that they did it. There is no moral defense for piracy full stop. You cannot justify it on logistical or economical grounds. But if you're cool with be being a pirate then hey more power to you; most people are...


So you think Taken did well in spite of piracy? How do you know that piracy didn't actually help it at the box office? When the film finally opened in my country there was massive word of mouth from all the folks who had already seen it.

Don't discount the power of word of mouth. Trent Reznor of Nine Inch Nails gets it. When Ghosts I-IV was released, he shared the entire Ghosts I on BitTorrent for free. The rest of the material was made available for purchase in different formats. After one week the album amassed over $1.6 million in sales.


Fri Apr 03, 2009 1:29 pm
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