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The best place to move if you hate your government? 
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Post Re: The best place to move if you hate your government?
I have lived in 5 countries and visited 49

Australia (Sydney 3 times) is amazing. People have an awesome spirit and culture and physically it's beautiful. It would probably be my place to go if i moved. perfect? Nope, but rather wondrous.

Patrick's comment is spot on. Most people complain and do nothing. Your government rely on that. There again, uprisings in several countries are a good sign.

I have been here for 15 years and it does feel that the level of intolerance has gone up.

My neighbor is classic. He has an armory in his house and I fear for his three kids. He was recently telling me about all his guns and what they can do. I asked him why he kept guns in hos house. His answer was two fold. if someone breaks in he has an armed response. wait for this. if Iraqi's or Afghans invade he'll be there to take 'em on.

Let's explore these two arguments.

1) Armed response - His guns are all locked in a huge safe in a spare room. The assumption is that if someone breaks in they won't do it while he's fondling them, or having dinner. He's probably going to be in bed in an alcohol induced sleep (he was a hard core alcoholic at the time). He has to get out of bed, make his way through the house find the keys, open the safe and get his gun while the bad guys wait around.

2) Invaders - they have beaten back the US navy and Army and arrived 15 miles in land in Novato California. Thank God for us, but he will be there to single handedly beat them back.

I raised these questions and was met by his party line. it's my right to have guns and you should get some too.

I stopped the conversation. The sheer stupidity of what appears to be a perfectly normal person staggers me.
Rob

PS - If protection is your gig. Get a large dog. Trust me, mine barks if anyone approaches. He's right next to me all the time and I've seen what Shepherds can do when we are at Schutzhund training. He tends not to explode and kill children in the house. But he sure eats a pile of food :-)


Thu Apr 07, 2011 10:30 am
Post Re: The best place to move if you hate your government?
I've heard the police are very strict in Singapore. Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't gum chewing banned there? And then theres that American kid who got canned for graffiti (well, he probably deserved it). And they hang you if you sell cannabis...I hope they don't treat the smokers (non-traffickers) that way as well. Singapore just seems a bit too strict for my bohemian ways.


Thu Apr 07, 2011 10:39 am
Post Re: The best place to move if you hate your government?
Robert Holloway wrote:
I have lived in 5 countries and visited 49

Australia (Sydney 3 times) is amazing. People have an awesome spirit and culture and physically it's beautiful. It would probably be my place to go if i moved. perfect? Nope, but rather wondrous.

Patrick's comment is spot on. Most people complain and do nothing. Your government rely on that. There again, uprisings in several countries are a good sign.

I have been here for 15 years and it does feel that the level of intolerance has gone up.

My neighbor is classic. He has an armory in his house and I fear for his three kids. He was recently telling me about all his guns and what they can do. I asked him why he kept guns in hos house. His answer was two fold. if someone breaks in he has an armed response. wait for this. if Iraqi's or Afghans invade he'll be there to take 'em on.

Let's explore these two arguments.

1) Armed response - His guns are all locked in a huge safe in a spare room. The assumption is that if someone breaks in they won't do it while he's fondling them, or having dinner. He's probably going to be in bed in an alcohol induced sleep (he was a hard core alcoholic at the time). He has to get out of bed, make his way through the house find the keys, open the safe and get his gun while the bad guys wait around.

2) Invaders - they have beaten back the US navy and Army and arrived 15 miles in land in Novato California. Thank God for us, but he will be there to single handedly beat them back.

I raised these questions and was met by his party line. it's my right to have guns and you should get some too.

I stopped the conversation. The sheer stupidity of what appears to be a perfectly normal person staggers me.
Rob

PS - If protection is your gig. Get a large dog. Trust me, mine barks if anyone approaches. He's right next to me all the time and I've seen what Shepherds can do when we are at Schutzhund training. He tends not to explode and kill children in the house. But he sure eats a pile of food :-)


What other countries did you live in besides the US and Australia? I mean, if you don't mind me asking.

And I still think you should be president. But on the condition that you paint your face like a member of KISS.

I'm not really big on protection. My dog is a bichon frise, lmao. For the record, he was a gift, I wouldn't have chosen a fluffy lapdog. But I'm glad I didn't get to choose because I wouldn't trade him in for the biggest, meanest, manliest pit bull in the breed.

And what you said about people complaining and doing nothing and how our government relies on that is one of the compounding reasons why I'm so frustrated with the attitudes of the general public.


Thu Apr 07, 2011 10:45 am
Post Re: The best place to move if you hate your government?
firefly wrote:
Timmy Shoes wrote:
according to a 07/08 report by the UN, the top five countries to live in are Iceland, Norway, Australia, Canada, and Ireland, respectively. It was conducted based on quality of life (U.S. came in at 12th, incase people are interested). I wonder if this holds up in 2011? Australia is the most appealing to me, mostly because of the awesome weather (i love the heat). But I'm also Irish-american, so Ireland has a lot of appeal to me as well. Though apparently their economy is in dire straights.


That's a rather old and antiquated report (and it's a measure of HDI, not 'best place to live', which is considerably more subjective). Iceland's economy subsequently nearly collapsed and it is now still in a bit of an unfavorable situation economically. Oh and the weather utterly sucks. So does the food.

Norway isn't too receptive to immigrants, in part because they have a nice supply of natural resources and a small population (since nobody would live in Norway if not for the resources, and a lot of people don't want to live there anyway). Norway's taxes are still rather high, to fund the ridiculous welfare state. Again, sucky weather and even suckier food.

Canada has high tax rates, restrictive anti-free speech laws, collectivist health care, bad weather, and outside of Toronto and Vancouver, bad food. Quebecers are the most racist and arrogant people in the world.

Ireland's economy has also experienced significant hardships, in part due to a housing crisis. Like the others, sucky food and sucky weather.

Australia has decent food thanks to all of the immigrants who go there. I'd consider taking a position in Australia or New Zealand once I get my doctorate (though only Auckland in NZ--the rest is too cool and rainy).

I'd take a position in Singapore, too. Low taxes, awesome food, warm weather, low crime etc.


Hi there
Most countries have suffered economically from the recent global recession that was started where?

I have visited all these countries , many of them frequently.

On the weather front you're struggling in Ireland, Norway and canada if you're averse to rain or cold. But to be fair, you're also having that in many parts of the US.

On food, America the country, not Manhattan or areas of other major cities, is the single worst place for food I have ever visited. This includes poor countries in Africa the back waters of India and latin America. The reason is simple. Quality. Over here we believe that huge plates of tasteless food is good. My girlfriend and I are seriously into cooking and travelling and our opinion is shared by most people who travel.

Now I'll agree that there aren't endless fast food joints in Tunisia and Morocco. However, there are street vendors serving up amazing fresh tasty food. Same thing in India. We sat amidst the rubble of a building site eating incredible food from a kitchen that might make you want to throw up.

For me the point that is missing is culture.

Walking through Spain there is a feeling of incredible life. there's something different. it's the same in Australia and New Zealand. I doubt anyone could go to Ireland (particularly outside major cities) and not come back with the same reaction.

American people are not bad, evil or wrong. But having lived and visited so many places, there is something sadly self centric and closed minded about most people. And most people I speak to recognize this as true.

All this said, I don't want to come over as an american basher. I live here for many reasons, but sadly, over the past 24 months, I increasingly wish that I didn't.

When I stop and think about a time when my kids have moved on, would i sat here. The answer is almost certainly no. There's another huge issue. As you get older, America increasingly is the wrong place to be.

Rob


Thu Apr 07, 2011 11:01 am
Post Re: The best place to move if you hate your government?
I have no dog in this fight, as I can see where everyone is coming from. Ultimately, you have to do what's best for you, whether that be leaving, taking a more active role in government, or turning a blind eye.

However, I do think it's a bit ridiculous for the guy who's LEAVING THE COUNTRY(!!!) to be chastising others who don't care or don't vote of having the sort of defeatest mentality he's tired of. Dude, YOU'RE DOING THE SAME THING!!!! Leaving the country is just another way of avoiding whatever the problems are. Somehow Timmy seems to think it's more honorable to give up and leave for another country than it is to give up and remain in the country. It's the same thing! People complain, do nothing, and stop caring. You may think you moving to another country is doing something, but those same issues will still exist whether you're here or not. So, please, save us the self righteous BS. You're choosing turn a blind eye by moving elsewhere. Fair enough, you have to do what's best for you, but it's the same type of mentality you're raging against in your posts.


Thu Apr 07, 2011 11:05 am
Post Re: The best place to move if you hate your government?
Robert Holloway wrote:
firefly wrote:
Timmy Shoes wrote:
according to a 07/08 report by the UN, the top five countries to live in are Iceland, Norway, Australia, Canada, and Ireland, respectively. It was conducted based on quality of life (U.S. came in at 12th, incase people are interested). I wonder if this holds up in 2011? Australia is the most appealing to me, mostly because of the awesome weather (i love the heat). But I'm also Irish-american, so Ireland has a lot of appeal to me as well. Though apparently their economy is in dire straights.


That's a rather old and antiquated report (and it's a measure of HDI, not 'best place to live', which is considerably more subjective). Iceland's economy subsequently nearly collapsed and it is now still in a bit of an unfavorable situation economically. Oh and the weather utterly sucks. So does the food.

Norway isn't too receptive to immigrants, in part because they have a nice supply of natural resources and a small population (since nobody would live in Norway if not for the resources, and a lot of people don't want to live there anyway). Norway's taxes are still rather high, to fund the ridiculous welfare state. Again, sucky weather and even suckier food.

Canada has high tax rates, restrictive anti-free speech laws, collectivist health care, bad weather, and outside of Toronto and Vancouver, bad food. Quebecers are the most racist and arrogant people in the world.


Ireland's economy has also experienced significant hardships, in part due to a housing crisis. Like the others, sucky food and sucky weather.

Australia has decent food thanks to all of the immigrants who go there. I'd consider taking a position in Australia or New Zealand once I get my doctorate (though only Auckland in NZ--the rest is too cool and rainy).

I'd take a position in Singapore, too. Low taxes, awesome food, warm weather, low crime etc.


Hi there
Most countries have suffered economically from the recent global recession that was started where?

I have visited all these countries , many of them frequently.

On the weather front you're struggling in Ireland, Norway and canada if you're averse to rain or cold. But to be fair, you're also having that in many parts of the US.

On food, America the country, not Manhattan or areas of other major cities, is the single worst place for food I have ever visited. This includes poor countries in Africa the back waters of India and latin America. The reason is simple. Quality. Over here we believe that huge plates of tasteless food is good. My girlfriend and I are seriously into cooking and travelling and our opinion is shared by most people who travel.

Now I'll agree that there aren't endless fast food joints in Tunisia and Morocco. However, there are street vendors serving up amazing fresh tasty food. Same thing in India. We sat amidst the rubble of a building site eating incredible food from a kitchen that might make you want to throw up.

For me the point that is missing is culture.

Walking through Spain there is a feeling of incredible life. there's something different. it's the same in Australia and New Zealand. I doubt anyone could go to Ireland (particularly outside major cities) and not come back with the same reaction.

American people are not bad, evil or wrong. But having lived and visited so many places, there is something sadly self centric and closed minded about most people. And most people I speak to recognize this as true.

All this said, I don't want to come over as an american basher. I live here for many reasons, but sadly, over the past 24 months, I increasingly wish that I didn't.

When I stop and think about a time when my kids have moved on, would i sat here. The answer is almost certainly no. There's another huge issue. As you get older, America increasingly is the wrong place to be.

Rob


I recognize these faults in my American brethren, but if you mention it they automatically get defensive. I don't know, perhaps living in New York City my whole life has made me a bit more open minded/wordly (by default of being surrounded by people from all over the world) than your more average American. But I suppose it'd be foolish to expect any other body of peoples to not be self oriented and close minded. Fuckin' humanity, I tell ya...

Seems like you and I have many of the same gripes about this country, despite my never having left it.

Question: does it EVER get warm in Ireland? Like, during the summer, could I go tanning on the beach shores in a bathing suit, or would I be freezing my dick off?

I really do hate the cold, but I also don't want it to prevent me from being someplace amazing.

@Pete: If I'm not a citizen of the United States, then I no longer have to pay taxes to the government. Will it make the slightest difference? No, but I'll at least feel better knowing my earnings aren't helping them perpetuate their wars. So leaving the country really isn't the same as staying and turning a blind eye.


Last edited by Timmy Shoes on Thu Apr 07, 2011 11:32 am, edited 2 times in total.



Thu Apr 07, 2011 11:14 am
Post Re: The best place to move if you hate your government?
Timmy Shoes wrote:
Robert Holloway wrote:
I have lived in 5 countries and visited 49



What other countries did you live in besides the US and Australia? I mean, if you don't mind me asking.

And I still think you should be president. But on the condition that you paint your face like a member of KISS.

I'm not really big on protection. My dog is a bichon frise, lmao. For the record, he was a gift, I wouldn't have chosen a fluffy lapdog. But I'm glad I didn't get to choose because I wouldn't trade him in for the biggest, meanest, manliest pit bull in the breed.

And what you said about people complaining and doing nothing and how our government relies on that is one of the compounding reasons why I'm so frustrated with the attitudes of the general public.


Hi there,
I have lived in England, France, Switzerland and Belgium besides the US.
Ah, Kiss Army days are behind me - sorry
I have a german Shepherd. he's totally friendly - but we have a deal. if someone enters the house and i am friendly with them, he has to be friendly. if someone enters the house and i'm not, he gets to "play".
The US political system is essentially a duopoly designed to stop others entering. I strongly lean towards liberal but find the Democratic party as a whole to be totally ineffective.
So what to do?
Rob


Thu Apr 07, 2011 11:23 am
Post Re: The best place to move if you hate your government?
Timmy Shoes wrote:
I've heard the police are very strict in Singapore. Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't gum chewing banned there? And then theres that American kid who got canned for graffiti (well, he probably deserved it). And they hang you if you sell cannabis...I hope they don't treat the smokers (non-traffickers) that way as well. Singapore just seems a bit too strict for my bohemian ways.



Our old Asian HQ was in Singapore and i was there every few months. There is a reason the locals call ist a "fine" city. they fine you for everything.
They are intolerant of crime and have really stamped it out. But sadly, it's bland, cultureless, boring place. It's the people on the edge of our circles that define the circle. they cut off the edges.

Rob


Thu Apr 07, 2011 11:25 am
Post Re: The best place to move if you hate your government?
PeachyPete wrote:
I have no dog in this fight, as I can see where everyone is coming from. Ultimately, you have to do what's best for you, whether that be leaving, taking a more active role in government, or turning a blind eye.

However, I do think it's a bit ridiculous for the guy who's LEAVING THE COUNTRY(!!!) to be chastising others who don't care or don't vote of having the sort of defeatest mentality he's tired of. Dude, YOU'RE DOING THE SAME THING!!!! Leaving the country is just another way of avoiding whatever the problems are. Somehow Timmy seems to think it's more honorable to give up and leave for another country than it is to give up and remain in the country. It's the same thing! People complain, do nothing, and stop caring. You may think you moving to another country is doing something, but those same issues will still exist whether you're here or not. So, please, save us the self righteous BS. You're choosing turn a blind eye by moving elsewhere. Fair enough, you have to do what's best for you, but it's the same type of mentality you're raging against in your posts.



Hi PeachPete
I've read your post a couple of times and can't work out who it's addressed to. Me or Timmy?
Rob


Thu Apr 07, 2011 11:28 am
Post Re: The best place to move if you hate your government?
He was most assuredly addressing me. I'm pissing everybody off today :?

Side note: If I took a more active role in government, I'd be assassinated within 6 months. They'd hire the same team of snipers that took out JFK.

(please don't take that seriously)

Tell me more of France and Switzerland! :D


Thu Apr 07, 2011 11:31 am
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Joined: Wed Mar 09, 2011 5:52 am
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Location: England.
Post Re: The best place to move if you hate your government?
don't come to england. besides the 'minor' culture difference, we're really just the same. nearly every person i know has a family member who has been put out of work, not to mention the rest who are just generally struggling through the recession.

don't get me started on the issues with 'war'. if ever there was a pointless cycle of bullshit, it's that. whilst i understand the potential 'need' for more 'well-off, civilised' (supposedly) countries to HELP those in dire straits, it is not exactly what we do. i can't profess to know much about politics in general (besides the way it impacts us and nerd raging), i fail continually to understand why we decide to involve ourselves in SOME affairs but not those of other countries who seem to have it just as bad. it comes down to the whole 'special interest' argument, it's been used so often that i always assumed it was the line to pull out when yr young and want to rebel and want to pin blame, but i genuinely cannot see any other reason, i'd love to know more.

i've always considered scandinavia. generally they do seem to keep themselves to themselves. i jokingly once said that i want to move to the country that i hear the LEAST about. and to me, that's sweden. the more i think about it though, the more i like the idea.

i've personally been to america 4 times, new york, texas, arizona and colorado. i've been to spain several times also. i even lived on the south east coast of spain for some time. i don't recommend it. it's a nice place to retire but job oppurtunities are scare, especially if you don't speak german, spanish, english and possibly even french. there are many people there who can and only have 'service industry' jobs. however, i assume there's more oppurtunity inland as well as being multi-cultural in madrid and the other larger cities such as murcia.

i will go out on a limb and say i side with you on yr arguments. i'm 25 and i still haven't ever been in the camp of 'like it or lump it'. i do believe that we have the power and we CAN change things, and to say you worry about yr current assignment and that's it is extremely naive. for example, we have a continuing problem with education in england whereby our last government urged everyone to STAY in education. it happened. now we have an overload of people who have graduated with a good degree and cannot get jobs in an over-saturated market. you used to walk into a job with a degree in yr chosen field, nowadays you are considered extremely lucky to have a job in yr chosen field within yr first year of being a graduate.

i often feel completely powerless, and as ONE we usually are, but as MANY we do have a voice. yes, fundamentally all forms of government have corruption, flaws and transparencies, but that doesn't mean you roll over and take it. there's a great sense of disgust at the way the UK is run at present from a great many people and not just because 'taxes' are high or 'shit is expensive'. it's a genuine sense of, 'i can trace where everything went wrong here and the lies that we were fed'. only recently within the last 6 months you can watch a video of out current 'co-deputy-bullshit title leader prime minister' declaring how education was a right, not a privilege and how he would not raise tution fees, 6 months later, they're up from £3,000 a year to £6,000 to £9,000. it really is abhorrent to vote for what you think is positive change from what you have heard from the horse's mouth only to have it thrown in yr face.

i agree that it would be a miracle for something to come out of this collective anguish, but we can hope. an upstanding, HONEST government is more of a miracle than the creation of life in my opinion.

thanks for allowing me the time to ramble about shit i honestly have no clue about. any help would be grand. ;)


Thu Apr 07, 2011 11:45 am
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Post Re: The best place to move if you hate your government?
I recommend somewhere on the French Riviera. Monte Carlo is nice.


Thu Apr 07, 2011 11:57 am
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Post Re: The best place to move if you hate your government?
Quote:
I'd take a position in Singapore, too. Low taxes, awesome food, warm weather, low crime etc


I forgot about Singapore; almost ended up getting stationed there a while ago.

Quote:
I recommend somewhere on the French Riviera. Monte Carlo is nice.


Good idea. I liked Marseille for the few months I was there and the waters are just amazing.


Thu Apr 07, 2011 12:45 pm
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Post Re: The best place to move if you hate your government?
spencerworth34 wrote:
I recommend somewhere on the French Riviera. Monte Carlo is nice.


and outrageously expensive

If you love the waters and weather of the med, think about the east coast of Spain or Corsica or far south in Italy

Rob


Thu Apr 07, 2011 12:50 pm
Post Re: The best place to move if you hate your government?
How about Japan? I know moving there probably sounds less appealing after that major earthquake, but you might want to give it a shot. For starters they're military is "for defense only" So they won't attack another country unless they get attacked first. They're also WAAYYYYYY ahead of us in technology, i'm pretty jealous over some of amazing shit they come up with, the food looks like it's to die for, I LOVE sushi. There's also alot less crime to worry about(sure there's the Yakuza, but from what i've heard, you're pretty safe from them as long as you stay out of they're way) The one thing that DOES terrify me about Japan though(aside from the earthquakes) are those giant hornets they have that are EVERYWHERE, holy shit those things are nasty! :shock:


Thu Apr 07, 2011 1:22 pm
Post Re: The best place to move if you hate your government?
Question: Are you serious about moving or was this just a way for you to criticize the U.S.?


Thu Apr 07, 2011 1:27 pm
Post Re: The best place to move if you hate your government?
One place you probably don't want to live is in the Middle East, not even India, especially not if you've ever seen that BBC documentary on the child labor over there.


Thu Apr 07, 2011 1:31 pm
Post Re: The best place to move if you hate your government?
Vexer wrote:
One place you probably don't want to live is in the Middle East, not even India, especially not if you've ever seen that BBC documentary on the child labor over there.



also Reelviews is censored or banned in those countries so that rules them out.
just kidding :lol:
Rob


Thu Apr 07, 2011 2:02 pm
Post Re: The best place to move if you hate your government?
I don't think this is on purpose, but Rob and Timmy, you're coming across as quite dismissive of any part of America that is not Manhattan/LA. I grew up in Manhattan and lived in LA for two years (as well as Chi-town, Miami, DC, Charlotte, Cincinnati and Indianappolis), and now I live in the heartland (Missouri). I love NYC and cities in general, but I think that America outside of the big cities does have a variety of quite interesting, engaging and enjoyable cultures. The idea that Ireland outside of the big cities has a good culture but America does not is simply inaccurate and close-minded. I'm not talking about suburbia, which is obviously life-sucking, but real towns and cities. I'm not in any sense trying to say that everything or all cultures stateside are great, because they're not. But it's very easy to see your homeland, wherever that is, as worse off than it really is.

That is all a separate issue than the political/social reasons to leave America, all of which I understand.

The bottom line in life is that if you can't make change from where you are then you can't make change anywhere, no matter where or who you are or what your title is. So to run somewhere else out of laziness is off to me. That said, I admire that Timmy actually seems like he's standing up for what is important to him. I admire Rob a ton for not just knocking America with the same dull accusations that often get thrown around, but actually having valid reasons and thought behind his stance and not devaluing the good/helpful things about America.

I'm afraid this will all sound wrong -- please understand that I have no sense of honor or duty to any country, king, man, etc etc. I care about people and I don't care about much else. My big point here is just that because there are lots of good people in this country, there is lots of good culture, it just has to be sought out -- and it's certainly not found in SoHo with the wire-rimmed glasses crowd.


Thu Apr 07, 2011 2:29 pm
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Post Re: The best place to move if you hate your government?
Quote:
- Foreign policy. We invade/occupy other parts of the world, supply rebels with weapons, and then when those same rebels come back to attack us, we claim it's because we're "free and prosperous." Bullshit; terrorism is a predictable consequence of our foreign policies. We've got Roman Empire syndrome and nobody seems to be heeding histories warning.

- Drug wars. Land of the free, home of the brave, but if you want to smoke a joint your going to jail. The worst part of it all is the sheer amount of ignorance the American people demonstrate in regards to the far reaching negative repercussions of our drug laws. You want to get rid of "drug crime"? Get rid of the fucking drug laws. Not to mention the fact that industrial hemp (which is still federally illegal despite have <1% THC, which means it wouldn't get you high at all) could end our dependance on foreign oil overnight.

- The attitudes of the American people. We just don't give a shit. We're the god damn mafia wives of the world; we turn a blind eye to all the evil and self-destructive things that our government does, so long as we get a shiny new ipod and fast car. I mean, it isn't some great big fucking mystery, all the information is available. The worst is when people say things like "well, it isn't going to change so what's the point?" Only a fraction of us vote... do people not realize our greatest ability to change things is to vote? And why are people like Ron Paul (watch this video and tell me it doesn't make COMPLETE SENSE) considered "unelectable"? The only reason he's unelectable is because people won't get off their fuckin arses to go vote for somebody like him. It's even more depressing to hear something like, "well I'd vote for him/her, but I don't want to waste my vote."


I agree with your central point here. On the foreign policy part I got into a discussion a few years ago with a far right Republican friend who thought George W Bush was the greatest president ever. I pointed out that there is a huge difference between defending ourselves and playing the role of world police. His argument kept coming back to "we have to be world police cause nobody else will and that the only way there will someday be some form of true peace in the world." As for drug laws, I agree with viewpoints from all across the spectrum from Milton Friedman to Jim Hightower: Decriminalize!

The apathy part I agree 100% on. As a voter I'm registered as an independent with what I consider to be Social Libertarian leanings. In 2004 I voted for Libertarian party candidate Michael Badnarik because I could get behind him. There was no way I could get behind Kerry and I was sure not going to vote for Bush. But i liked Badnarik's ideas for the most part even if I'm not a 100% no government type Libertarian. When I tried to get other people to consider Badnarik, they were like "oh that's a wasted vote!" No it's not. You find a candidate you like and you vote for him. I almsot voted for Ralph Nader in 2000. I didn't mainly because I fell victim to the "vote for Nader=vote for Bush" view. (I also don't agre with quite a few of Nader's views).

When John F Kennedy got in, what did he say to the American public? "Ask not what America will do for you, ask what you will do for America". At some point, that message got erased and replaced with a "me first, I got mine screw you" mentality. America seemed to change from being a nation of active citizens to being a nation of passive consumers.

That being said, I'm not quite as pessimistic in my outlook as Timmy seems to be. I do think there is the danger that America could go in the direction he's talking about. In fact I once observed that the more decisions are left to people who obviosuly can't handle them (IE:Most people in government) the more and more things will crumble and this country could conceivably get to where things are as bad off as they are for many of the so-called third world countries. This could happen. However I do not think it will. I think at some point people can and will wake up and focus on fixing what needs to be fixed.

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Thu Apr 07, 2011 2:31 pm
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