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Events over the last couple of days 
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Post Events over the last couple of days
First Sydney, and today the horrific events in Pakistan!

I am NOT trying to trivialise this, but I can't help but think of the line John Goodman says in the Big Lebowski "say what you want about National Socialism, at least it has an ethos".

At least with Nazi Germany, we could decode their aims, and then defeat them whilst retaining a moral purpose. Everyone understood what Nazism was. It was transparent, and therefore easier to tackle.

What we are seeing here is the purest fucking nihilism imaginable. There's not even an ethos to work out and defeat. It's destructive evil for the sake of it.

How can we fight this shit without breaking our own rules?

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Tue Dec 16, 2014 6:53 am
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Post Re: Events over the last couple of days
Rules? I don't remember reading about anyone running around checking to make sure a German was a Nazi prior to dropping a bomb on him (or her). Most all of them were held culpable as far as I can tell.


Tue Dec 16, 2014 9:57 pm
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Post Re: Events over the last couple of days
I don't know if I should post in this thread, because I will undoubtedly be seen as a racist and obnoxious bigot by most on here If I truly start spitting the vile dark comments that I want to spew.

So I will calm down and just say the only thing we can do is live our lives to the best of our ability, taking the good with the bad, hope the bad doesn't happen to us or our loved ones, and fight for good and what's right in the world, as human beings.


Tue Dec 16, 2014 11:19 pm
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Post Re: Events over the last couple of days
NotHughGrant wrote:
First Sydney, and today the horrific events in Pakistan!

I am NOT trying to trivialise this, but I can't help but think of the line John Goodman says in the Big Lebowski "say what you want about National Socialism, at least it has an ethos".

At least with Nazi Germany, we could decode their aims, and then defeat them whilst retaining a moral purpose. Everyone understood what Nazism was. It was transparent, and therefore easier to tackle.

What we are seeing here is the purest fucking nihilism imaginable. There's not even an ethos to work out and defeat. It's destructive evil for the sake of it.

How can we fight this shit without breaking our own rules?


Things feel to me like they've been pretty out of control since 9/11, before that the world felt like a different place. I don't really have anything meaningful to say here, it's been a sad, sad week.

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Wed Dec 17, 2014 3:39 am
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Post Re: Events over the last couple of days
I was pretty young for 9/11, but I still remember the different world that existed before it. And I still miss it.


Wed Dec 17, 2014 4:45 am
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Post Re: Events over the last couple of days
9/11 changed the world because it made us, and "them" aware that random chaos was enough to destabilise society.

It made us realise how brittle freedom from fear is. And that's the fucker, tat fear itself is enough for the enemy to claim some level of victory.

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Wed Dec 17, 2014 7:43 am
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Post Re: Events over the last couple of days
CasualDad wrote:
Rules? I don't remember reading about anyone running around checking to make sure a German was a Nazi prior to dropping a bomb on him (or her). Most all of them were held culpable as far as I can tell.


You're right. But we understood Nazism. We were facing an enemy (to borrow from M in Skyfall) that was identifiable.

Now we're at war with shadows and pockets of lunacy

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Wed Dec 17, 2014 7:44 am
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Post Re: Events over the last couple of days
Don't forget this though:

We're currently in the middle of the greatest peace the world has pretty much ever known. Before you get too warm and fuzzy about the clarity brought by the Nazis, let's remember that 3% of THE WORLD died in World War II. So it might seem scary that someone took hostages in a chocolate store, but think about how far we've come -- we now pretty much *expect* peace.

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Wed Dec 17, 2014 8:20 am
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Post Re: Events over the last couple of days
Quote:
Before you get too warm and fuzzy about the clarity brought by the Nazis


Uncalled for

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Wed Dec 17, 2014 8:23 am
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Post Re: Events over the last couple of days
NotHughGrant wrote:
Quote:
Before you get too warm and fuzzy about the clarity brought by the Nazis


Uncalled for


Really? This is your quote:

"At least with Nazi Germany, we could decode their aims, and then defeat them whilst retaining a moral purpose. Everyone understood what Nazism was. It was transparent, and therefore easier to tackle."

My point is entirely called for. You're getting slightly...erm...nostalgic about a group that, even leaving aside the Holocaust (though we shouldn't) required millions upon millions of deaths to defeat. I think you have missed the point so badly that frankly I let you off easy. Easier to tackle. Easier....to tackle? Ask the *million* people who died during the Siege of Leningrad alone. And then compare that to the fact that two people just died in a hostage crisis in Sydney.

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Wed Dec 17, 2014 8:41 am
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Post Re: Events over the last couple of days
JamesKunz wrote:
Don't forget this though:

We're currently in the middle of the greatest peace the world has pretty much ever known. Before you get too warm and fuzzy about the clarity brought by the Nazis, let's remember that 3% of THE WORLD died in World War II. So it might seem scary that someone took hostages in a chocolate store, but think about how far we've come -- we now pretty much *expect* peace.


ARE YOU FOR FUCKING REAL??

We expect peace nowadays do we? Because hmm, why is that mate?

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Wed Dec 17, 2014 9:06 am
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Post Re: Events over the last couple of days
I don't know that the world is so close to real peace. But it does seem like peace is more generally desired on a global level than it ever has been perhaps in the history of the world.

In a way, that's what scares me. It could be something of a cultural hustle. A calm before a storm. As in, people seem to want peace, but do they really? May sound paranoid, and indeed for decades the Cold War instilled fear of events that never specifically came to pass. Or did they? 9/11 arguably devastated/scared people more than any Russian Nukes would have anyway. Oddly enough, on a psychological level, I think if one yearns for peace, they'll never actually be at peace within themselves. Because they'll always have fear. But if one accepts that permanent peace is an illusion anyway, maybe it's easier to let go of fear a little. That doesn't mean we should just be complacent. No one could react to the horror of the Pakistan incident with complacency. But I think what's missing right now is a sense of world leaders

1. Being brutally honest about the state of things
2. Taking decisive action


Problem is, conflicts run through metaphysical platforms now. It's not just good guys fighting bad guys. It's good guys fighting good guys who demand that the bad guys have equal rights and representation. There's a larger war being fought now, on top of all the smaller ones. A Meta War: Political Correctness on one side, Reality and Common Sense on the other.


Wed Dec 17, 2014 9:22 am
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Post Re: Events over the last couple of days
JamesKunz wrote:
NotHughGrant wrote:
Quote:
Before you get too warm and fuzzy about the clarity brought by the Nazis


Uncalled for


Really? This is your quote:

"At least with Nazi Germany, we could decode their aims, and then defeat them whilst retaining a moral purpose. Everyone understood what Nazism was. It was transparent, and therefore easier to tackle."

My point is entirely called for. You're getting slightly...erm...nostalgic about a group that, even leaving aside the Holocaust (though we shouldn't) required millions upon millions of deaths to defeat. I think you have missed the point so badly that frankly I let you off easy. Easier to tackle. Easier....to tackle? Ask the *million* people who died during the Siege of Leningrad alone. And then compare that to the fact that two people just died in a hostage crisis in Sydney.


I'm not talking or justifying numbers. I'm talking about how our enemies are now amongst us. And how do you know there won't be another such event? There's an entire region controlled by terrorists in the Middle East. Does "dirty bomb" mean anything?

Fucking hell, I know mentioning the Nazis is a red flag to idiots, but I thought a teacher would at least behave rationally. Or perhaps you're a teacher because you can't and you're part of the fucking mass-stupidity issue?

Who knows?

Also, have you heard about Pakistan? Or is it all chocolate shops in Sydney with you?

Are you taking the piss? Serious question. Because you're fucking winding me up.

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Wed Dec 17, 2014 9:34 am
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Post Re: Events over the last couple of days
MGamesCook wrote:
There's a larger war being fought now, on top of all the smaller ones. A Meta War: Political Correctness on one side, Reality and Common Sense on the other.


Out of anything I've ever read you post on here, I can finally say that I unequivocally agree with you.


Wed Dec 17, 2014 11:28 am
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Post Re: Events over the last couple of days
NotHughGrant wrote:
Are you taking the piss? Serious question. Because you're fucking winding me up.


I'm not taking the piss. I just don't know how you can in any way long for the clarity of National Socialism, or claim it was "easy to tackle," given what it did to the world.

wisey wrote:
ARE YOU FOR FUCKING REAL??

We expect peace nowadays do we? Because hmm, why is that mate?


Don't...really know what you're so steamed about. Since 1945, the world has entered a period in which the major powers have not fought a single war with each other, except by proxy. Nuclear weapons have played a role, as has the UN. But think about it -- we're in a period where it would be utterly, utterly unfathomable for France to attack Germany. We expect peace now. That's interesting, and it changes our perspective.

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Wed Dec 17, 2014 12:36 pm
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Post Re: Events over the last couple of days
I don't want to pour any oil into the flames, but I think that JamesKunz has provided some much needed perspective here. I'll elaborate this once I will have found the time for it, but consider the following:

- The Nazis actually didn't have a coherent "ethos" or "philosophy". They also didn't have a specific vision on how to organise a state or society. This may appear to be a ludicrous statement in the light of the fact that this was a totalitarian dictatorship, but the only real political principle (apart from rampant, genocidal anti-semitism) was the so-called "Führerprinzip", i.e. whatever Adolf says, goes.

- The tragic events in Pakistan and Australia are not related at all. One is a terrorist attack by the Taliban on the elite of a country, in which they have established a foothold, the other is a terrorist attack by an isolated individual, who claims to be an IS sympathiser, but isn't affiliated with them. IS and Taliban/Al Quaeda are actually different and rival organisations.

And where was the outcry on this forum when the islamophobe Anders Breivik shot 77 youths in 2011?


Wed Dec 17, 2014 12:49 pm
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Post Re: Events over the last couple of days
MGamesCook wrote:
I was pretty young for 9/11, but I still remember the different world that existed before it. And I still miss it.
I was also quite young when it happened, though for me 9/11 was honestly a pretty normal day more or less(one of my school classes in another building was cancelled, but other then that the day went by pretty normally, the teachers didn't go into huge detail about what had happened). I saw the news reports when I got home, but it didn't traumatize me or anything since I didn't fully understand what was happening(and wouldn't until several years later), and I didn't really notice a big difference in the world, school didn't really change much, it wasn't until I went with my family to visit my relatives in Arizona years later that I really noticed a change as airport security was noticeably tighter since the last time our family had traveled to Arizona.


Wed Dec 17, 2014 2:50 pm
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Post Re: Events over the last couple of days
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I'm not taking the piss. I just don't know how you can in any way long for the clarity of National Socialism, or claim it was "easy to tackle," given what it did to the world.


It wasn't easy. But it was in front of our faces. Like a boxer in a ring.

The next big war, if it comes, our enemies will be scattered among us. We'll hardly have an idea of who or even what we're fighting.

We'll be fighting chaos. The Nazis were evil, but not chaotic like these fuckers are. We destroyed Nazi Germany in 6 years and it never returned. Already we've been battling radical Islam for 13 years and they've actually fucking gained a state, never mind lost one.

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Wed Dec 17, 2014 3:54 pm
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Post Re: Events over the last couple of days
NotHughGrant wrote:
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I'm not taking the piss. I just don't know how you can in any way long for the clarity of National Socialism, or claim it was "easy to tackle," given what it did to the world.


It wasn't easy. But it was in front of our faces. Like a boxer in a ring.

The next big war, if it comes, our enemies will be scattered among us. We'll hardly have an idea of who or even what we're fighting.

We'll be fighting chaos. The Nazis were evil, but not chaotic like these fuckers are. We destroyed Nazi Germany in 6 years and it never returned. Already we've been battling radical Islam for 13 years and they've actually fucking gained a state, never mind lost one.


Again, I think you're just looking at this in the wrong light. WWII deaths among the allies:
US: 420,000
UK: 450,000
France: 550,000
Soviet Union: 21,000,000 - 28,000,000

Deaths in notable War on Terror events
9/11: 2,977
War in Afghanistan: 3,479
War in Iraq: 4,809
July 7 London Bus Bombing: 52
Boston Marathon Bombing: 3

I will take the murkiness that kills 15,000 over the clarity that kills 70,000,000

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Wed Dec 17, 2014 6:30 pm
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Post Re: Events over the last couple of days
Except the murkiness continues with no apparent conclusion and with increasing boldness. At present levels not at all bad in comparison to historic levels, but mass carnage will probably spring forth at some time. No real reason not to believe that a movement that kills school children and mall shoppers in order to make a statement would be averse to making larger statements if they could. At some point they will. Particularly if the attitude is that what's been done up to this point is no big deal.


Wed Dec 17, 2014 6:56 pm
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