Discussion of movies and ReelThoughts topics
|
It is currently Thu Jun 20, 2013 5:29 am
|
View unanswered posts | View active topics
I Don't Know How Many Basketball Fans We Have Here, But...
| Author |
Message |
|
Shade
|
 Re: I Don't Know How Many Basketball Fans We Have Here, But...
Alright, so Marc Stein had this to say in his power rankings this week: I say (as Stein does) hell yes it should be a prerequisite. But this year? As Simmons' best column in a while said last week, this is not a great year for the MVP award. Now, is Bron hands-down the best player right now? Of course. But that's not the same question. So he might deserve it simply because there's not an obvious or better candidate from the teams with a better record, but this deserves discussion. K-Love, though, does not deserve to be in the conversation for #1. Should he get some #3 or so votes? Sure. Did you guys catch the Easter Knicks game? Exciting, yes, and it showed the best and worst of the stars involved: Rose never shoots the ball well and doesn't rack up assists. Somehow he's still a great PG (not being sarcastic here, he truly is great), and their defense is astounding at times. Real, true contender? I'm still not sure. Rose does still take bad shots, and their offense gets awfully stagnant in the half-court at times. And how good is Shumpert? Again, not sarcastic, a real question. Rose can be loose with the ball, and if Shump always tries to strip a guy after letting him get by he'll get beaten a lot. But man he looked good on Sunday.
|
| Mon Apr 09, 2012 6:35 pm |
|
 |
|
PeachyPete
|
 Re: I Don't Know How Many Basketball Fans We Have Here, But...
To me, the Lebron or Durant vs. Love MVP debate boils down to this: What's more valuable, a player (like Lebron or Durant) who turns a pretty good team without him into a title contender or a player (like Love) who turns a terrible team without him into a not-as-terrible-but-still-pretty-bad team with him? The toughest thing to do in the NBA (and pro sports in general) is to make the jump from good to great. That's why guys like Durant and Lebron are more valuable than Love. They've made that jump, Love hasn't yet (although, as I keep saying, I think he will). Stein's point is a good one in regard to Lebron, but I think he's pretty much carried the Heat this year. Let's face it, Bosh isn't a franchise caliber player. We all know that by now. Wade's been in and out of the lineup all year (his body is breaking down, he's not going to age well) and they've been a considerably better team with just Lebron over just Wade. Lebron is just plain better than Wade is right now. That might not be a good thing in the postseason, but for the regular season it's unquestionable. For whatever reason, Wade hasn't been himself, and Bosh is just good. The rest of that team is average at best. Guys like Battier, Haslem, and Miller are coasting by on reps at this point. They aren't anywhere near the players they once were. Lebron is really the only reason they're a title contender. Some of the same things can be said about Durant, but he's had more help from Westbrook than Lebron's had from Wade this year, he has two really good defensive big men (Perk and Ibaka), and the game's best bench player (Harden). Durant's had more help leading his team to title contention. I didn't see the game, just the highlights. I'm looking forward to the rematch tonight, however. Judging simply by the highlights, and Melo's 2 ridiculous threes he hit (one to force OT, the other late in OT), the Knicks are doomed. No knock on Melo, he was clearly hot and is a proven clutch scorer, but they needed an almost superhuman effort from him to win that game. It's just unrealistic to expect him to be able to do that consistently. Still, a great game from him, no doubt. Also, I'm not the first to put this forward, but watch out for Memphis. They're getting healthy and hot, and we saw what kind of team they can be last year. I say they're the second or third best team in the West right now, depending on how you feel about San Antonio.
|
| Tue Apr 10, 2012 1:13 pm |
|
 |
|
MunichMan
|
 Re: I Don't Know How Many Basketball Fans We Have Here, But...
Chicago wins without Rose again. Not much of a rematch. But we knew the Bulls weren't going to drop two in a row to the same team, with or without Rose. Hell, they've only lost two in a row once this year (and for much of last year as well, for that matter). Rose could have played, but it's better to make sure he is totally healthy, rather than rush getting him back. One or two weeks to get back into the rhythm of the team should be enough to have him ready for the playoffs. And make no mistake, the Bulls do need him for the playoffs.
As for the West, I agree that Memphis is the 2nd or 3rd best team right now, but that doesn't depend on how I feel about San Antonio, I think they're #1.
What Nash is doing with Phoenix is incredible. What Nash is doing is incredible. They could be sneaky dangerous if they make the playoffs. Also, as poorly as the Clippers are playing right now, don't underestimate Paul's ability to take over games in the playoffs.
|
| Wed Apr 11, 2012 4:26 am |
|
 |
|
Evenflow8112
|
 Re: I Don't Know How Many Basketball Fans We Have Here, But...
The Grizzlies are the second team, behind OKC. The Lakers are simply there by rep alone and the Clips have a legit shot thanks to Chris Paul. I don't see San Antonio making strong playoff noise; since 2007 they've regularly had accomplished regular seasons followed by blink-and-you'll-miss-it postseason campaigns. It's funny, because for all that's different about this lockout-shortened season, much has remained the same - the Spurs are close to clinching the West's best record, the Bulls are lofting to a generally uncontested 1 seed through injury, and the Hear are biding time til' the regular season ends. In each conference, I think the #1 seed is in danger of losing to a subordinate 2 or 3 seed. It's gonna feel like pretty painful deja vu if the Spurs somehow call the Grizzlies' number on the way to the Conference Finals; the team that embarrassed them last postseason is probably even *deadlier* now. As for deadly, nice job, Celts. Simmons has been raining Auerbach- praise on them lately, and after they stuffed Miami twice in two weeks and positively raped the Sixers (that win, Heat games aside, was most significant, and DEFINITELY the most satisfying), the Celtics look big and bad again. Doc River, if he wasn't already, has vaulted into the top 2 or 3 of coaching; his latest masterstroke has been to play Allen off the bench, which works PERFECTLY. No offense to Allen, but to me he's a specialty scorer, and when you exploit his stengths for gainful stretches of a game, he'll make you look brilliant and make your opponent rip their hair out.
|
| Wed Apr 11, 2012 12:17 pm |
|
 |
|
PeachyPete
|
 Re: I Don't Know How Many Basketball Fans We Have Here, But...
Before I get to quoting I just want to say that the playoffs are almost here! Obviously you guys know that, but it's exciting! I love very few things in life like I love the NBA playoffs, and they're soon to be upon us. It's a great thing, even in a weird season. I think the Spurs are legit this year. They're a lot deeper than they have been for a while and Tony Parker is playing at a ridiculous level. I'd still place them third behind OKC and Memphis (in that order), but I can see them making it to the Western Conference Finals if they avoid Memphis in the second round. Although, the Lakers could beat them based on matchups alone. Memphis and OKC are really the only 2 teams that can matchup inside with LA. It really depends on if Kobe wants to win or if he wants to take 30 shots a game. Kobe usually plays smart in the playoffs, though. I'm not very high on the Spurs making it out of the West for 2 reasons: 1. They're doing it with offense and depth this year as opposed to defense. They're a fun team to watch, but those two characteristics aren't historically great barometers of playoff success. When the benches shorten and the game slows down, deep, offensive teams usually have trouble adjusting. Now, the Spurs have a ton of playoff experience and may be able to adjust, but it's tough. 2. The aforementioned matchups. They're likely going to draw Memphis or the Lakers in the second round, and those are both terrible matchups for them. You just can't ask DeJuan Blair to guard either Gasol brother, Bynum, or Zbo for 7 games. I like the guy, but that's just too much to ask. Splitter will have to play big minutes, and I'm not sure he's capable against those guys just yet. I also think the Clippers are decidedly the 5th best team in the West. The Foye/Williams/Young experiments at SG just aren't working. Butler is a shell of his former self, and Deandre Jordan just isn't very good. Their bench has been non-existent all season. They have a raw, athletic Blake and a game, willing CP3. Paul will make any series they're in interesting, but I really can't see them winning a first round series.  |  |  |  | Evenflow8112 wrote: As for deadly, nice job, Celts. Simmons has been raining Auerbach- praise on them lately, and after they stuffed Miami twice in two weeks and positively raped the Sixers (that win, Heat games aside, was most significant, and DEFINITELY the most satisfying), the Celtics look big and bad again. Doc River, if he wasn't already, has vaulted into the top 2 or 3 of coaching; his latest masterstroke has been to play Allen off the bench, which works PERFECTLY. No offense to Allen, but to me he's a specialty scorer, and when you exploit his stengths for gainful stretches of a game, he'll make you look brilliant and make your opponent rip their hair out. |  |  |  |  |
Agreed on all fronts. I can see C's fan (of which Phil is one) enjoying those Sixers wins more than the Heat wins (division rival, putting an overachieving team in its place), but those Ws over Miami, especially last night's where the Heat were trying and actually playing well, announced the Celtics as a team to be reckoned with. Before last night I didn't take them seriously as a threat in the East. Now? They can absolutely beat Miami or Chicago. You know they're going to bring it defensively and Doc is going to pull the right strings at the exact right time (seriously, he's been insane this year). If they can play offense like that? They're going to be tough to beat. Obviously, they aren't going to shoot 60% every game (or maybe any other games), but it was the execution that was impressive last night. Like Memphis, the C's are hot and healthy at the right time.
|
| Wed Apr 11, 2012 2:20 pm |
|
 |
|
Shade
|
 Re: I Don't Know How Many Basketball Fans We Have Here, But...
I agree with all your Spurs thoughts. I don't think they make it out and getting to the WCF will not be a walk, but they're capable. They lost to a team in Memphis last year that was tailor-made to beat them. I agree that they lost a bit of their defensive identity this year, but their record is pretty remarkable. Agreed. And I think a first-round win or loss determines the success of this season. I almost hope they lose to guarantee that Del Negro gets the ax, but we'll see. I still love Blake, but remember when Blake vs K-Love was a legit debate? My goodness. The theory that CP3 is laying low and resting until the playoffs is all that gives me hope with this team. Yep. The Miami wins mean a little in terms of proving the C's are gaining steam, but they mean nothing (and I mean nothing) in regard to what a Miami-Boston playoff series would look like. Could the C's win? Indeed. But every facet of how the Heat defend Boston will be different if it comes to that, and I don't think we learned a lot about how these teams match up during these last two games between them.. You're exactly right that the execution is what mattered. The lack of points in the paint is a concern, but this is a C's team that just isn't like other teams. Frankly, I could see them beating one of the top 2 in the 2nd round and then losing in the ECF just because they don't stay hot. But if another team takes care of one of the top 2 for them? They absolutely can get to the Finals. And if they beat Miami and Chicago on their way? Historic greatness for the Big 3 in a huge way. And I'll buy everyone here tickets to Cannes next year. My goodness. Oh, and as Simmons and others have said, Boston is not afraid of anyone right now. Nor should they be.
|
| Wed Apr 11, 2012 2:47 pm |
|
 |
|
PeachyPete
|
 Re: I Don't Know How Many Basketball Fans We Have Here, But...
So of course they go and beat OKC last night, in OKC. Naturally, CP3 had 31 and the game winning bucket with just a few seconds left. Good point about Del Negro. I'd like to see them lose just so they can replace that schmuck. You've probably already read it, but maybe others haven't. I highly recommend checking out Simmons' latest column on the C's game in Miami the other night. He echoes a lot of what we've said and adds some to it. Speaking of the C's, they did it again against the Hawks last night. 20 assists from Rondo (and a triple double) and 22 and 12 from KG. That was another nice win coming off of the emotional game in Miami the night before. Other thoughts from around the Association last night: Granted, an extreme example, but we saw exactly what happens to the Spurs against bigger teams last night. Bynum grabs 30 boards and the Lakers coast by outrebounding San Antonio 60 to 33. And this was without Kobe. The Knicks all but punched their ticket to the playoffs with their win in Milwaukee last night. Is anyone else kind of fascinated by a potential Chicago-NY first round series? Of course the Bulls should win, but after their games over the last few days, it could be a really entertaining series. Memphis wins again!
|
| Thu Apr 12, 2012 10:04 am |
|
 |
|
Shade
|
 Re: I Don't Know How Many Basketball Fans We Have Here, But...
Yeah it's a solid piece. I agree with a lot of it, and I really do think the recent Miami game was huge in that they were able to beat the Heat when Lebron was on. Doing that 4 out of 7 is a high order, but they're capable now. Agreed all around. I think Chicago would get through, but it would take a lot out of them. On that note, are we sure Chicago is better this year? Rose has been when he's been fully healthy, but that hasn't happened a lot and there's not exactly great reason to believe it will soon. Noah has been worse all year, and they still don't have a big who's effective on both ends. Deng's a great defender, no doubt, but I find it hard to imagine them challenging -- much less beating -- Miami in a series. I'm not convinced a series would be much closer than last year's was.
|
| Thu Apr 12, 2012 12:53 pm |
|
 |
|
PeachyPete
|
 Re: I Don't Know How Many Basketball Fans We Have Here, But...
It's a valid question. There's also the fact that Rip Hamilton, who was brought in to finally fix their SG woes, has played a grand total of 20 games this season. Of those 20 games, how many have been with Rose? These guys have close to no experience together, and haven't played alongside one another for any significant stretch of time, let alone any big moments. The Bulls have the league's best record, but they also seem to have the most major question marks of the East's (now) 3 elite teams. Miami's question mark is can they close games, but that didn't stop them from dominating the Bulls last postseason. Boston has two big question marks - can they stay healthy and can they score enough? The Bulls have a ton. Is Rose healthy? Can he and Hamilton play effectively together? Can Boozer play a shred of defense (ok we know the answer to that - hell no he can't)? Can Noah be a factor offensively? There's also the almost forgotten fact that not only did Lebron and Wade outplay Rose in the Conference Finals last year, but Rose was flat out terrible in that series. We still don't know if he's a guy who can carry a team to a title. All signs point to him being able to, and last year's struggles just being the normal growing pains for a young player, but, well, we need to see it before we can say it can happen.
|
| Thu Apr 12, 2012 2:42 pm |
|
 |
|
Evenflow8112
|
 Re: I Don't Know How Many Basketball Fans We Have Here, But...
My feelings on the playoff teams as of now:
- Boston is still scary, but they need the right match-up. They can definitely let off the gas and a late-game deficit will always be deadly for them. KG's resurgence is impressive, as is the fact that they have been winning games without their entire starting cast (imagine them doing that as a little as a month ago) on more than one occasion. I also *REALLY* like their odds of beating Atlanta and Orlando (sans Howard), both teams who have no abjectly threatening players nor incredibly favorable match-ups. I also think they can whip the Pacers if it ever becomes a match-up; the Celtics are the same team every night, sink or swim, and and that's a quality that is only shared in their Conference by the Bulls and the Heat. That's really it. And that's arguably the single most telling quality that defines a good team from a truly scary one. - San Antonio will always get some attention because of their title trips from last decade (just as, admittedly, Boston still does for their 08' title), and for the record, Gregg Popovich is the single greatest regular season manager of a coach that I've ever witnessed. He's figured out the science of the regular season in a way that even Jerry Sloan might be envious of. That doesn't make me scared of San Antonio, though; I think they've lost their playoff mojo. Time will tell, but I believe if any other team had the same playoff stretch they did over the past five years, then you'd count them out deep inside. Their deep offense is going to give them only the slightest of edges, and if Bynum AND Kobe are on for an entire series (let alone if Pau plays as well as he has been lately), then the Spurs are going to be annihilated. I don't like any of their matchups this postseason outside of the Clips. The Suns are obviously a one-an-done team, but they have a scary confidence to them. They could give San Antonio fits as the eight seed.
- The Suns have now put Steve Nash in the top 5 of MVP balloting. I make no concessions - he's been amazing this entire season, and now he's manning a threatening Suns team that rightly has dwarfed the absolutely worthless Houston Rockets and 'eh' Utah Jazz for a playoff spot that only they deserve (if the Rockets make the postseason, I 'm not even watching the games they play in). Alvin Gentry deserves contention for a COY award that should go to Doc Rivers, but will probably go to Thibs. I like Pops, too, but Rivers has worked with Keyon Dooling all season. Sure, I'm biased, but. Keyon. Dooling.
- The Bulls are a team that will go as far s Rose will take them. Their loss to OKC last month opened my eyes to the truth; if they do not have a elite scorer who can force other teams to abandon their match-ups to cover him, then they do not have a single threatening guy to close the gaps and scare the other team into matching. The other team will shoot at will, and the Bulls will settle for concrete 2's and loft the occasional ill-advised 3's (as they did last night). I like Deng, but he's a more obvious #2 as opposed to, say, Wade or Westbrook. The more and more people clamor for the Bulls, the more and more they ignore (as most analysts tend to do) how many variables it takes for people to explain how the Bulls can beat the Heat. This is not promising.
- The Pacers can beat the Magic or Hawks. They need to be Maverick-perfect to beat the Bulls, Heat, or Celtics. I don't like their odds one bit, mostly because of what I've said before; they don't have a defining 'OH NO' guy on their roster. Not even close. Luol Deng could don a Pacers uniform and endanger their best player's starting spot. Go ahead, argue with me. You can't.
- The Suns are wily, unafraid (see Dudley badger and antagonize Blake all last night? If you're a Suns fan, that's a thing of beauty) and are lead by the best PG after Paul and Rondo. Why the hell not? I'd love to watch them play against San Antonio,. though I obviously would favor Pop's boys in that one.
- The. Magic. Are. Screwed.
- The Hawks need Pachulia to step up and be a 20-20 guy in regulation. Read: The. Hawks. Are. Screwed.
- The Clippers are a team that's content to answer an opponent, possession for possession, and fight for a close win. They dunk amazingly, they have the best all-around PG in the league (in terms of passing Rondo's probably better, but he can't score), and Blake is capable of scaring people when they're not clothes-lining him during plays. I just don't feel like this is their year, because they should be, on paper, *wrecking* opponents as opposed to keeping pace with them. Once they start to make blowouts the order of the day, I'll become a Clips advocate. Til' then, that match-up with the Griz looks scarier and scarier by the day.
- The Grizzlies are a team I never watch. Really. I just know they're good. They're my 'evil exception to the norm' team that beats the highly touted, more publicized higher seeds. They're a scary team that has nothing to lose. They're the definition of the sleeper team. In an especially open year or a lockout-shortened season, they could take prime advantage and steal the Conference title. And, as it just so happens, they're enjoying both of those things.
- The Mavericks are entirely not frightening. We'll see, but I think Simmons called it right when he said that giving up Chandler was their concession of the 2012 title. They're just not a elite team at the moment, and haven't been all season long.
- Bynum, Bynun, Bynum. The Lakers look terrifying. Tell me they can't threaten any and every team in the league and that Bynum isn't playing the best Center-ball in the league. Try it. (BYNUM)
- The Knicks are a scary team if Melo is hot. And, my predictions be damned, he has been very hot lately. I'm not loving them to beat any of the Big 3 (Bulls, Heat, C's), but they will light up any team that dares to treat them lightly.
- Are the Nuggets going to the playoffs? I stopped caring. *Shrug* They are going to get pummeled pretty badly by any team they face.
- The Thunder are amazing, but who didn't know that? Harden is their wild-card; if he plays amazingly well, they are a title winner. If the team relies too heavily on Durant (who's not even close to being MVP, by the way) and Westbrook, they will lose some games. I think they have the most recognizably successful team in the league, with almost every position being filled and with personality (they have the twin scores, the crazy blocker, the guy who plays no 'O' but plays amazing perimeter 'D', and the ever-reliable sixth man). They are undeniably the team that looks the most like a championship roster. Whether or not they can fulfill their potential and overpower the Heat four times is going to be the answer to their title hopes.
- As for Sixers..... What is this team on? I think we need to call D.A.R.E. There's definitely some abuse going on in Philly; but most of all, the team towards its fans. They are having the worst NBA implosion of the year.
|
| Fri Apr 20, 2012 1:52 pm |
|
 |
|
Shade
|
 Re: I Don't Know How Many Basketball Fans We Have Here, But...
Well, I'm as bummed as can be for the Suns not getting in. Alas.
I'll be equally bummed, though, if we don't get a Miami-NYK first round series. Oy.
Awards? Awards.
MVP: Bron Bron. It's not a great MVP year, but there's no other reasonable choice.
Coach: The best battle of the year in terms of genuine contenders...and they'll probably give it to Thibs because voters are so small minded and will only look at Rose was out = They won games! and not look at the fact that they played terrible teams when Rose was out for the most part. I think it should go to Doc or Pop. It's not that I don't like Thibs, because I really do, but other than Rose missing some games, what were the challenges of coaching that team this year?
MIP: I just think the Most Improved Award is beyond stupid. It's way too subjective. Yeah, Monroe, made a big leap, be shouldn't all NBA players make a big leap going into their 2nd year assuming they get minutes? Same with Lin...I don't totally buy into Linsanity and never have, but isn't it possible he makes an even bigger jump next year? Bynum makes the most sense to me because I don't think 3 years or less guys should be eligible. Mostly though I just think the award should be ditched.
Defensive Player is intriguing. I think Dwight finally won't win because of ill will towards him, although he hasn't been any worse this year than normal. I think Chandler has a chance, but I really think KG deserves it. I'm fine with either of those guys winning it, though. Or Tony Allen, if the voters weren't biased against guards.
Your thoughts, gents?
Also...........PLAAAYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYOOOOOOOOOFFFFFFFFFFFSSSSSSSSSSS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
|
| Wed Apr 25, 2012 2:19 pm |
|
 |
|
PeachyPete
|
 Re: I Don't Know How Many Basketball Fans We Have Here, But...
As am I. They likely would have been run out of the building by San Antonio, but Nash deserved to be playing in the postseason this year. It just kind of sucks that he isn't. The NBA Playoffs are always better when Steve Nash is involved. Agreed. The Knicks are in Charlotte tonight and the Sixers are in Detroit (both teams are 35-30). Both teams should win, which would leave the Knicks as the 7th seed facing Miami. I think Philly is getting destroyed by whoever they play, so I'd much rather like to see Miami face the tougher team.  |  |  |  | Shade wrote: MVP: Bron Bron. It's not a great MVP year, but there's no other reasonable choice.
Coach: The best battle of the year in terms of genuine contenders...and they'll probably give it to Thibs because voters are so small minded and will only look at Rose was out = They won games! and not look at the fact that they played terrible teams when Rose was out for the most part. I think it should go to Doc or Pop. It's not that I don't like Thibs, because I really do, but other than Rose missing some games, what were the challenges of coaching that team this year?
MIP: I just think the Most Improved Award is beyond stupid. It's way too subjective. Yeah, Monroe, made a big leap, be shouldn't all NBA players make a big leap going into their 2nd year assuming they get minutes? Same with Lin...I don't totally buy into Linsanity and never have, but isn't it possible he makes an even bigger jump next year? Bynum makes the most sense to me because I don't think 3 years or less guys should be eligible. Mostly though I just think the award should be ditched.
Defensive Player is intriguing. I think Dwight finally won't win because of ill will towards him, although he hasn't been any worse this year than normal. I think Chandler has a chance, but I really think KG deserves it. I'm fine with either of those guys winning it, though. Or Tony Allen, if the voters weren't biased against guards. |  |  |  |  |
Agreed on MVP. I don't have a huge problem with any of those 3 winning Coach of the Year. I think all 3 are worthy. If pressed for a pick, I'd go with Pop simply because the Spurs have completely switched their style up, dealt with injuries and an aging roster, and still ended up with the West's top seed. You've convinced me that MIP is a useless award. It almost always goes to a young guy who makes the leap or an older guy who has a random good season. It isn't really an indicator of much of anything. I'll admit that I don't really have much of a feel for DPOY. I agree that the backlash towards Howard will allow a different winner, but I don't really know who it will be. Chandler is a really good guess. How about 6th Man? It's gotta be Harden, right? I mean, is there even a question? So. Fucking. Exciting.
|
| Thu Apr 26, 2012 9:17 am |
|
 |
|
MunichMan
|
 Re: I Don't Know How Many Basketball Fans We Have Here, But...
Since it's playoff time... There are some interesting ideas in this article. You think the playoffs are exciting now, what about a single elimination tourney, a la March Madness? No time to comment now, but the article brings up some good points and innovative (for the NBA, at least) proposals. http://espn.go.com/blog/truehoop/post/_ ... tournament
|
| Fri Apr 27, 2012 11:14 am |
|
 |
|
PeachyPete
|
 Re: I Don't Know How Many Basketball Fans We Have Here, But...
I'll be the first to admit that a single elimination tournament would be incredibly entertaining and I'd be glued to the TV, but there's a bunch of reasons why it wouldn't work: The comparison to the NFL playoffs is a a huge reach. The NFL has a single elimination tournament, and is easy to plan around, out of necessity. Football is played once a week because of the toll it takes on the body. Playing a series (even a short one like a best of 3) would draw out the playoffs for months since the games can only be played weekly. The article can point to college and Olympic sports all it wants, but no other pro sport in America decides its champion in a single elimination playoff tournament. College and Olympic sports are very limited in terms of time frame. A single elimination tournament is the only way to crown a champion within the allotted time. If time would permit, they'd likely use a series format as well. The article's point that it would take over 200 games between 2 teams to get rid of all randomness is a classic straw man argument. The point is that a 7 game series is much less random than a single game. Sure, there might still be an element of randomness, but that doesn't mean you just forgo any attempt to lessen the randomness. It's still much less random than a single elimination tournament. Also, again, time has to be taken into consideration. The NBA playoffs are long. It just isn't practical to go longer than 7 games for a given series. The article says the champions of March Madness and the Olympics are accepted as legitmate champs, but that's more out of necessity than anything else. We don't really have a choice but to accept them as the champs, since those tournaments are all we have. It doesn't serve as evidence that a single elimination tournament does a good job of determining who is the best team. Also, I'd like to point out that someone like the Sixers or Knicks beating the Heat or Bulls in one game wouldn't be anywhere near as shocking or entertaining as a 14 or 15 seed beating a 2 or 3 seed in the NCAA tournament. If you follow the league, you've seen the lower seeds play quite a bit. That isn't the case with the NCAA tournament. It's an unavoidable difference between a league with 30 teams and a league with over 300 teams. The upsets just aren't going to be as affecting. Naturally, that's going to decrease excitement.
|
| Fri Apr 27, 2012 11:58 am |
|
 |
|
MunichMan
|
 Re: I Don't Know How Many Basketball Fans We Have Here, But...
Shit!!! Early reports show possible torn ACL & MCL for Rose. Why the fuck was he in the game with a minute left and a 13 point lead???
The Bulls dominated (and Rose with a nice 23/9/9 line) Philly, but if Rose is out...
|
| Sat Apr 28, 2012 6:09 pm |
|
 |
|
Shade
|
 Re: I Don't Know How Many Basketball Fans We Have Here, But...
Such a bummer. Dude clearly isn't soft, but maybe he's fragile? Tough tough thing. If it's really that injury...he'll never be the same. Rough stuff. They're good enough to win the series without him, of course, but not to get any further. Regarding NY-Miami...the flop (and yes, it was totally a flop) by Bron on the Chandler screen was absurd. And while the rest of his game was fantastic, I still genuinely don't understand how he's smart enough to flop (even though it's lame) but not smart enough to take it to the rim when he had Melo in foul trouble early. Alas. I don't think the series is over by any means...and I hope that no matter how it ends, it's not close in the closing minutes so we can have some nasty fighting and cheap shots. Does this make me a terrible person?
|
| Sat Apr 28, 2012 6:23 pm |
|
 |
|
MunichMan
|
 Re: I Don't Know How Many Basketball Fans We Have Here, But...
Prior to this season, his whole basketball career (high school, college, pros) he had only missed six games. Just horrible bad luck this year. Bad luck, or his full-out, 110% style of play, damn the consequences has finally caught up to him and his relatively small body.
|
| Sun Apr 29, 2012 5:14 am |
|
 |
|
ed_metal_head
|
 Re: I Don't Know How Many Basketball Fans We Have Here, But...
^ What an awful thing to happen in the first game of the playoffs. Chicago can't win the the title without him. It's as simple as that. I also echo Shade's sentiment about his long term prospects. That's a horrible injury. Here's to hoping that he regains his speed and ability to change direction as quickly as he does otherwise he just won't be the same player. I do think the Bulls stand a good chance against the 76ers, but I even give them a shot in the next round, provided they play the Hawks.
And why shouldn't they be playing the Hawks? Last night I heard every pundit say that the Bulls are going to lose to the Celtics in the next round. Who knew beating Atlanta was such a fait accompli? I also think Boston are the favourites in that series but I think it's a big mistake to sleep on Atlanta. They actually look better than next year and the Celtics are so damn unpredictable. I put nothing past Boston. They could win it or all they could just as soon lose in the first round. Atlanta does have home court though, so I'm giving them a decent shot.
And doesn't Miami's road to the final/championship suddenly look easier? For a while it looked liked they'd have to play NYC, Boston and Chicago, in that order. Now it's NYC (more on them in second) followed by Indy (probably, they just lost at home to Orlando without Howard!) and then Boston/Atlanta/Chicago without Rose. Apart from Boston (who, again, could do anything) there aren't too many banana skins to slip on. They can beat any team from the West too.
And Miami will beat this Knicks team easily. Fearless prediction: the Knicks will get swept if they don't adjust their starting five. Let's think about this Knicks team for a second. They're a .500 or sub .500 team that have no business in the playoffs. The only reason they're here is because of 2 magical months. The first was Linsanity. He's out and they probably cannot recapture that. The second surge was when Amare was injured and they played Melo at the 4. WHY AREN'T THEY REPEATING THAT??? It's madness to start with Melo at the 3 and Amare at the 4. Play Melo at the 4 and Chandler at the 5. Bring Amare off the bench to backup both the 4/5 positions. He'll still get just over 20 minutes. This is, by far, the best chance the Knicks have to do anything in this series (the loss of Shumpert is underrated too. By far their best perimeter defender).
And what about the West? Who knows, dudes, who knows? San Antonio should beat Utah pretty easily, but I can see Utah's size giving the Spurs a few problems. Memphis/LAC is a shootout. Home court may make the difference, but the Clippers do have CP3. The Lakers could actually win the Championship, you know. They've won some big games and are looking real solid. They could also lose in the first round to Denver. I doubt that though. Denver has the legs, but giving up Nene (how do you decide in the offseason to build your team around a player you've known for a long time, give him a big contract and then trade him two months later????) hurt their chances.
Then there's Dallas/OKC. It may be my mad love for Dirk but I think Dallas has a great chance here and last night proved it. Dallas has been awful for most of the season, but they have the experience of winning the championship, they beat OKC last year and even though they lost 3-1 to the Thunder in the regular season, all of those games were close. This is the pick of the first round playoff matchups and I suspect we may go to 7 here. That said, I think OKC wins in 7. Last night showed why. All of a sudden, Dirk turned into Nosferatu again and it was 2011 when he made huge clutch plays in almost every game. And yet...it was different. He was very clutch, but he (and some of the other Mavs) were also sloppy. Two bad turnovers by the German at the end and Dallas' failure to close out the Thunder when they were up by 8 with 2 minutes or so left may very well cost them the series. We'll see how it goes, but Dallas ain't dead yet. How can they be, when the Nosferatu is one of the un-dead?
|
| Sun Apr 29, 2012 11:36 am |
|
 |
|
Evenflow8112
|
 Re: I Don't Know How Many Basketball Fans We Have Here, But...
Random thoughts:
- The Spurs lucked out with Utah. I'm as happy for Al Jefferson as Bill Simmons is (unless he's being ironic), but even with Devin Harris playing well... he's still Devin Harris. Ask any Nets fan how excited they were when he was traded to NJ for Kidd, and you'll see a grim expression form soon after (that is, *if* they haven't blocked it from their memory yet). Sure, losing Kidd was devastating, but getting a PG who was the definition of average was the actual offense of the deal. He's not a catalyst; he's just a scorer who has to be lumped into a position, and that position was PG. No way Utah survives when he has to go toe-to-toe with Tony Parker, who might just be peaking as a player.
- The Celtics laid an egg against the Hawks, and now face the possibility of losing Rondo for a pivotal game 2. However, this works in their favor as well, since the Celtics have, oddly, done pretty well in Rondo's absence since Paul Pierce can actually facilitate team production (take tips, Melo). Very assured that Boston will take over in Game 2, although the series is in more doubt now by mere proxy since the Hawks struck first and now have the now definite possibility of striking last. I expect Bradley to improve/loosen up exponentially in between games.
- Andrew Bynum is now arguably more valuable than Dwight Howard. No way the Lakers should have moved him for D12. This may be a worse year for Howard as a Superstar than Melo has had in 1 1/2 years of making a the Knicks a lock for a low playoff seed (obviously what the Knicks were hoping when they pulled the trigger last deadline). If Bynum can't make the Lakers great (he *does* have two titles to his name, one playing - albeit badly - against Howard), then why should people assume Howard will, now? Bynum in 2013, with a full off-season to improve, now sounds incredibly enticing. And he survived the 2012 season (which has to have lost people a collective $1.5 trillion in bets worldwide). Ask Derrick Rose how easy that is. I gained admiration for this man, which is hard to say, because now I admire three players (the others being Gasol, and... if you need to know the third, you're an idiot and no, really, you are one) on a team I thoroughly detest. They look great right now, and it scares me. Oh, and Kobe's still my wire-to-wire-to-crunch-time scorer. Durant won the scoring title, but he's actually not even close if you think about it. That is how great Kobe is.
- Skip Bayless called it. The Thunder can be beaten, and this is mostly thanks to Westbrook. He's a fantastic scorer... but I have a visceral gut reaction NOT to bank on him (I'm going to call it Melo-drome - and yes, I've already harassed Bill Simmons with this horrible term). And I never go against my gut unless it starts going against my ability to get laid. Then it's time for workouts to episodes of Arrested Development on shuffle. If you read those last two sentences repeatedly over 50 times you will actually become clinically depressed.
- The Clippers finish one of the biggest comebacks ever on the road against a team that was designed to murder teams that play exactly like them. Chris Paul just made Durant the distant third for MVP voting. I think Durant's contention, in hindsight, was a cruel joke, since nobody pays attention to him, even on his own team, which, by the way (and I'm sure most of you have heard this next stat to death), wins more when he shoots less. He had the best invisible shot of winning an MVP since Jason Kidd pulled a Mozart and the award went to Brahms instead (Duncan).
- Ironically, Duncan and (especially) KG would make my All-Star ballot, unquestionably, and Dirk wouldn't be on it, also unquestionably. When the All-Star game was announced (which was, by necessity, way too fucking early in the season), who would have called that? It was almost the polar opposite. Amazing what a season of relative (but undeniable) mediocrity can do to the equity of one of the best postseasons in NBA history. And the most ironic part - Dirk is probably still the more dangerous postseason guy. He almost sank the Thunder (with help from Terry, who's still the best bench scorer in the league if we're combining playoffs and regular season), although every grain of logic in the universe would suggest OKC should win. Keep an eye on his Games 2 and 3 (like I need to tell anyone).
- I want to see Taj and TJ play in the postseason before I bury the Bulls as the East's No. 2 team. Boston's exactly the kind of team (like *cough* the Devils *cough, cough*) that has stretches of brilliance, met by league-wide reassurance, followed by letdown. They're a shaky number 2 team, at best. What's stopping the Bulls, exactly? By the way, Thibs has the chance to either totally lose permanently lose his COY shot (stupidly keeping Rose in well after the game was decided against a shitty Philly team) or lock himself in as the best coach in the league, period (basically advancing to the Conference Finals, or even making THE Finals - or, improbably, winning it all). Sure, it wasn't Thibs' plan to ax Rose for a direct shot at all-time coaching greatness, but it's definitely a motivation for him to continue, whether he or anyone else wants to admit it.
- Continuing Dwight Howard's descent into professional basketball Hell, here we go: Last year, with Dwight, the Magic got laid out by Atlanta (the only team that's *more* stereotypical than Orlando at coughing up postseason hairballs). This year, not only without Dwight but with Glen Davis in his place, they beat the Pacers on the road, play lock-down 'D', and are nearing .500 overall without their marquee player promised to return now matter how far they go in the postseason. If the Magic win out and arrive at the Conference Finals, or even just win this series and dogfight into a round 2 game 7 loss on the road, does Orlando fire Stan Van Gundy? Does Dwight get his pre-deadline trade value back - ever? Dwight has almost literally made the worst string of choices a professional athlete can make without doing drugs or committing a felony as is possible. I'm almost impressed.
- Lastly, the Heat might just become the beneficiaries of LeBron's breakout postseason year. If so, words can't express how bad I feel for the Knicks in game 2, 3, and 4 (no other games required). Melo has this series to prove my comments all season wrong. Question is: is he up for it?
This might be the single most interesting postseason I've ever seen in any sport, by the way. It certainly has the best collection of stories, moral confusion, and intriguing subplots I've seen on TV since The Wire went off the air. And yes, I consider 'Pete's possible mental collapse at the prospect of Nick Young being the high scorer for more Clippers games than anyone else on their team in the playoffs' (just like, yes, last night) one of the Top 10. And if they win out while that happens (not that I'm saying it will, but who knows!) - I'm honestly afraid of what happens next. We're 1/10th of the way to seeing a real-life Deer Hunter with Pete playing Nick (already close with the name) and Shade playing Michael, after Nick Young (see the connection? getting closer!) wins the Finals with one shot ("One shot, Nick" - closer!) and Shade screaming "Petey, NOOOOOO!" through a horrible faux-DeNiro anteater beard. Oh, and Pete's favorite team (and Nick Young's former team) only used to be named THE BULLETS (aaand we have arrived!). Admit it, Pete, somewhere deep down inside, I just made you scared for your life and sanity.
|
| Mon Apr 30, 2012 12:44 pm |
|
 |
|
Shade
|
 Re: I Don't Know How Many Basketball Fans We Have Here, But...
The Spurs are playing fantastic. Yes, Utah's no real competition at this point, but that's hardly unusual for the 1-8 match-up. Can they reach the Finals? Certainly. Every team in the West (including San Antonio, of course) is flawed. They can absolutely beat OKC in a series. Memphis, of course, can pound them on the boards and beat them. The Spurs could get beat by anyone other than Utah, frankly. But if Parker continues to play out of his mind they can beat anyone. They are very deep and experienced and have players who can win games on their own...in other words, they're not that different than the Mavs last year, only their best players have multiple titles. And this has been mentioned a lot lately, but if Duncan wins titles 13 years apart...that's as remarkable as anything we've seen in this generation of sports stars. Do I predict they'll make the Finals? Not sure at all. I think they can, and so can Memphis. Those are my top two at this point, honestly. I would not go so far as to say it works in their favor; they're undeniably better with Rondo. But I'm also not nearly afraid of playing a must-win game without him against this Hawks team. Pierce can indeed lead the team very well and it allows Bradley to play the whole game. I firmly believe Ray Allen could have played in game 1 if they felt it was necessary...not sure if he suits it up for Game 2, but I think they can win it either way.  |  |  |  | Evenflow8112 wrote: Andrew Bynum is now arguably more valuable than Dwight Howard. No way the Lakers should have moved him for D12. This may be a worse year for Howard as a Superstar than Melo has had in 1 1/2 years of making a the Knicks a lock for a low playoff seed (obviously what the Knicks were hoping when they pulled the trigger last deadline). If Bynum can't make the Lakers great (he *does* have two titles to his name, one playing - albeit badly - against Howard), then why should people assume Howard will, now? Bynum in 2013, with a full off-season to improve, now sounds incredibly enticing. And he survived the 2012 season (which has to have lost people a collective $1.5 trillion in bets worldwide). Ask Derrick Rose how easy that is. I gained admiration for this man, which is hard to say, because now I admire three players (the others being Gasol, and... if you need to know the third, you're an idiot and no, really, you are one) on a team I thoroughly detest. They look great right now, and it scares me. Oh, and Kobe's still my wire-to-wire-to-crunch-time scorer. Durant won the scoring title, but he's actually not even close if you think about it. That is how great Kobe is. |  |  |  |  |
Let's see if Bynum makes it through these playoffs healthy, but assuming he does, I'm with you. Watching them against Denver doesn't tell us much, because Gasol and Bynum are a head taller than anyone on Denver. But it does tell us how beastly any team with two bigs that are that skilled can be. Writing this team off because of Kobe's limitations is just silly. Now, OKC is obviously a bad matchup for them on all levels (the speed of the wings and the size OKC has inside), but as we've seen recently, OKC is susceptible to savvy teams who play good defense. More on this shortly, but I don't count out the Lakers at all. I don't really blame Westbrook. The makeup of the team is flawed: with Ibaka and Perk on the floor, they're playing 3-on-5 on offense. If you slow down one of OKC's big two, you're in good shape. Again, I certainly don't think it's a great match-up for the Lakers, but it's not insurmountable either. OKC seems to have been anointed as if they've done something other than take a good team to 7 games in the first round last year. Part of me wonders (as many others have, of course) if we won't see Durant/OKC truly compete for a title until the makeup of the team is changed a bit. Of course, they could get hot and make a huge run, but the older teams in the West know how to beat a team like this. This point has been made a lot today, but the singular reason for the Clippers comeback was the Grizz letting up. Paul was insane, indeed, and deserves all kinds of props simply for believing his team could come back, but that belief came directly from recognizing that Memphis was laying down. I don't think Memphis does that again and I think they win this in 6.  |  |  |  | Evenflow8112 wrote: I want to see Taj and TJ play in the postseason before I bury the Bulls as the East's No. 2 team. Boston's exactly the kind of team (like *cough* the Devils *cough, cough*) that has stretches of brilliance, met by league-wide reassurance, followed by letdown. They're a shaky number 2 team, at best. What's stopping the Bulls, exactly? By the way, Thibs has the chance to either totally lose permanently lose his COY shot (stupidly keeping Rose in well after the game was decided against a shitty Philly team) or lock himself in as the best coach in the league, period (basically advancing to the Conference Finals, or even making THE Finals - or, improbably, winning it all). Sure, it wasn't Thibs' plan to ax Rose for a direct shot at all-time coaching greatness, but it's definitely a motivation for him to continue, whether he or anyone else wants to admit it. |  |  |  |  |
Obviously they can't win it all unless every other team loses their best guy. But I agree with you that they can make the Conference Finals in a best-case scenario. There's no way in hell they beat Miami because they won't be able to score. And here's the thing with Thibs: he always keeps guys in too long. That's just how he coaches. Given the state of that game, I think Rose deserves as much blame as his coach...why make that move at that time? We all love guys who play hard, but you have to pick your spots and stay under control in that situation. Not hating on Rose at all, I love the kid, but this revisionist history on Rose post-injury is silly. Let's be clear: Dwight did not shit on his team nearly as much as Melo did last year, and look where he is now (and how we are talking about him). Winning changes everything in sports, and while I think you're correct that Dwight's perceived value has been damaged, his basketball value has not changed. At all. In fact, consider how well he's played this year -- and it's been damn well -- and imagine how much he might improve when he likes his situation. Is he a diva? Of course. Do I like him? Not at all. But I'm not convinced we won't see him dominating on a near-title team in short order. Regarding SVG: he's going to be fired. No matter what. SVG is a good coach, but SVGs come around approximately 8 billion times before another Dwight comes around. However, regardless of what happens from here in these playoffs, SVG has restored order and heft to his coaching rep. He'll be on a good team whenever he wants to be. I don't really know if we should take much from that game or anything in this series. Was Bron great? Of course. But he was pretty close to equally great the first two rounds last year. He got better as a player this season and so he's better than last year and that affects things, but he hasn't answered the questions we all rightfully still have on him. He also is still dumb: he didn't take it to the hole when Melo got in foul trouble nearly enough. Could he play this way all the way to a trophy? Of course. Yes yes yes. We might all (finally) be witnesses. But I still don't think this series means much. Agreed that there have been great stories, but in two days we saw one decent game (Indy-Orlando) one great game (OKC-Dallas) and one ridiculous 4th quarter. Hopefully the games will catch up to the stories (and I believe they will in the coming rounds, presuming 8 more stars don't go down with injuries).
|
| Mon Apr 30, 2012 4:33 pm |
|
|
Who is online |
Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests |
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum You cannot reply to topics in this forum You cannot edit your posts in this forum You cannot delete your posts in this forum You cannot post attachments in this forum
|
|