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I Don't Know How Many Basketball Fans We Have Here, But... 
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Post Re: I Don't Know How Many Basketball Fans We Have Here, But...
MunichMan wrote:
How could the best basketball news of the year be overlooked by you guys?

Rodman starting topless basketball team

Anyway, Bulls are looking good, even without Rip.


I'm slightly concerned that this might actually involve Rodman playing with a partially pulled down wedding dress.

PeachyPete wrote:
Second things second, the Wizards are the worst team in the NBA.


Dude, I feel for you. You can see the future for most bad NBA teams, but apart from Wall and Pierre there isn't a whole lot here. Worse, I'm quite worried about the effect that locker room is having on a young talent like Wall. You'll know better than me, but there's no way that Captain Andre Blatche and the rest of the Gots-to-get-mine Wizards are helping Wall's development. And that's a real shame.

PeachyPete wrote:
Lob City is going to be good, possibly very good, but not right away. Even when they get it together, they aren't going to be great. They just simply aren't that good outside of Blake Griffin and CP3. They have literally no bench. The only 2 bench players they have that are halfway decent, Mo Williams and Randy Foye, are both ball dominant, scoring combo guards. That's not good. DeAndre Jordan does 2 things great - block shots and dunk. Other than that, he's fairly average. It hurts me to watch Chauncey Billups play SG. Watching a guy who ran Detroit's offense so well for so many years stand around and jack 3s he can't hit anymore is painful. I have no idea why the Clippers thought he'd be able to transition to the 2 on the fly like this. He's trying to have a scorer's mentality, but he seemed to be overcompensating in game 1. Now he's hurt, and at 35, that's not likely to be a one time thing. I think he's going to have a train wreck of a year in LA.


Agreed. It might be the Simmons effect, but people are way too high on the Clips. Didn't he pick them to win the Division? I wonder how those big money deals for Caron Butler and Jordan are going to affect their future. Jordan is getting a lot of money to be Blake's BFF.

Also: how bout them...Timberwolves?!?

They're 2-3 at time of writing (currently down to the Grizz at haltime). That's nothing to rave about, but...have you seen their schedule for the first six games? OKC, @MIL, MIA, DAL, SA, MEM. That's got to be one of the most difficult starts for any team. In that run they managed to beat Dallas and San Antonio and basically lost to OKC, MIL and MIA in the last minute (or second). Not too bad. It's too early to say, but that pick they've sent to New Orleans might not be the high lottery pick that the Hornets wanted.


Wed Jan 04, 2012 10:12 pm
Post Re: I Don't Know How Many Basketball Fans We Have Here, But...
ed_metal_head wrote:
Dude, I feel for you. You can see the future for most bad NBA teams, but apart from Wall and Pierre there isn't a whole lot here. Worse, I'm quite worried about the effect that locker room is having on a young talent like Wall. You'll know better than me, but there's no way that Captain Andre Blatche and the rest of the Gots-to-get-mine Wizards are helping Wall's development. And that's a real shame.


You know what the sad part is? The DC media is currently killing Wall for his leadership abilities of all things. Granted, the guy hasn't exactly been playing lights out this year, and that's fair to criticize. If the Wiz ever want to be any good, it has to start with Wall becoming an elite PG. That said, I have a hard time killing the guy for not being able to lead the likes of Blatche, Nick Young, and Jordan Crawford. Those guys are me-first players with no real understanding of how basketball is played. They go out on the court every night and destroy whatever offensive set the Wiz are running as soon as the ball touches their hands by jacking up a shot (usually a terrible one). But hey, they put up 20 points occasionally so people think they have talent.

For the first time I'm becoming concerned with Wall's development because he isn't a big time scorer and needs to be playing with guys who have the exact opposite attitude.

ed_metal_head wrote:
Also: how bout them...Timberwolves?!?

They're 2-3 at time of writing (currently down to the Grizz at haltime). That's nothing to rave about, but...have you seen their schedule for the first six games? OKC, @MIL, MIA, DAL, SA, MEM. That's got to be one of the most difficult starts for any team. In that run they managed to beat Dallas and San Antonio and basically lost to OKC, MIL and MIA in the last minute (or second). Not too bad. It's too early to say, but that pick they've sent to New Orleans might not be the high lottery pick that the Hornets wanted.


I think they're going to be pretty good. Relatively speaking, that is. They have a deep team which should help with the brutal schedule this year. They also have a bunch of young talent, which is the real reason why they'll be a competitive team. I'm not sure they can make the playoffs because they West, while not having an elite team, is pretty deep, and the Wolves are very young. I do think they're going to beat a lot of good teams and finish 9th or 10th though. That's a step up for them.


Thu Jan 05, 2012 10:16 am
Post Re: I Don't Know How Many Basketball Fans We Have Here, But...
More proof that the Wizards are a complete disaster, from ProBasketballTalk.com:

PBT wrote:
How could the 0-8 Washington Wizards come off as more dysfunctional? Well….

Rashard Lewis got into a pregame fight with assistant coach Sam Cassell and refused to play in the Wizards loss to Minnesota Sunday, reports to CSNWashington.com. He was not on the Wizards bench during the game (officially because of a sore knee, but if you believe that you probably believe Sammy Hagar is the greatest rock guitarist of all time).

That would be Rashard “I’m making $22.2 million this year” Lewis, by the way.

That would be Lewis the “stretch four” who is shooting 22.2 percent from three this season. Averaging just 8.7 points per game. He of the 8.2 PER (the kind of number you expect from D-League call ups).

Lewis, like everyone on the Wizards, is struggling. And I have no idea what this fight was about. But I’ll bet you that Cassell is right.

This young Wizards team desperately needs veteran leadership to show it how to prepare, how to compete, how to be professional at the NBA level. They are not getting that from Lewis.


Thanks a lot, Rashard. Glad we kept such a "pro" around to influence all the young guys on the roster. Thanks for providing that veteran leadership. Jerkoff.

Sam Cassell should have punched him in the mouth and then done his big balls dance right in his face.


Mon Jan 09, 2012 11:06 am
Post Re: I Don't Know How Many Basketball Fans We Have Here, But...
That sucks. I hope he doesn't even get a minimum deal from anyone after this year. His numbers don't deserve NBA basketball and his attitude doesn't either. Let him hang with Sprewell.

On the other hand, the Wiz look a little better since another vet (was it Maurice Evans? I'm way too tired to type, much less Google this) got angry with the attitude and called a players' meeting. They better clean house in 2012.


Wed Jan 11, 2012 9:11 pm
Post Re: I Don't Know How Many Basketball Fans We Have Here, But...
Just watched Lob City take down the Semi-Mighty Bosstones of Miami.

Things I didn't like: late in the game, both Blake and Bron made some incredulous are you kidding me? acting jobs on calls that were incredibly obvious and incredibly right. Hate that this happens because it (rightfully) turns people off to the league. That being said...

Miami missed 14 FTs (Bron shot less than 50% himself). Yuck. Even more yuck, in the last 10 minutes of game time (end of 4th and OT) they scored 1 FG. That's right. One shot from the floow.

Ahem...

[Reveal] Spoiler:
Image


On the one hand, yes, they played that bad on offense and still almost won. On the other hand...

[Reveal] Spoiler:
Image


1 FG! In nearly a quarter of action! How can they be that bad on offense with that much offensive talent (much as I dislike Bosh, he is a good and creative offensive player)? I'll tell you how, and it's the same reason they lost in ATL last night: Hero Ball. Late in tight games, they forget that they're playing next to All-Stars. They go 1-on-5. Bron settles for jumpers. Etc etc. It's awful.

As far as the Clips go, I like a lot of what I see, but their emotions need to become balanced...Blake losing his cool a bit on a very mild foul from Battier at the end was a bit silly. I do think the hype went to Blake and Jordan's heads a little. But they have time to get it right.

In other news, Eric Maynor is out for the year. A sneakily big injury, I think, although James Harden's emergence has been huge (he's been better than Westbrook all year).

And still in other news...KG is losing it. Yes, he's lost little by little since he's been in Boston. But he's just unable to be super strong with the ball these days. I know he's made in easy to hate him recently, but as one who's lived vicariously through him since 1998, it's a tough thing to see. He's certainly not bad by any stretch, and I don't think he'll hold on too long. Still, it's weird.


Thu Jan 12, 2012 3:04 am
Post Re: I Don't Know How Many Basketball Fans We Have Here, But...
This thread has been much too quiet considering the insanity we've seen so far this season. Maybe this will get those hoops juices flowing again:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z9q8jsVQnNk

I was watching this game by myself last night on NBA TV, and when this happened I literally stood up and screamed and proceeded to laugh my ass off for the next 5 minutes. It was that awesome. Blake's still pretty raw, but man is he entertaining.

Also, if you look at the box score from that game, you'd see Westbrook had 31, 4, and 4 with 5 steals, a block, and 6 turnovers. He shot 13-26 from the field and you'd think he played CP3 to a draw. You'd also be dead wrong. Paul was surgical last night, picking and choosing when to score at will, when to push the ball, and when to run the offense and get his team a good shot. He had 26 and 14, and was 12-16 from the field. He turned in a masterpiece of point guard play last night. To watch the game was to see the glaring difference between him and Westbrook. Paul is one of the best pure point guards we'll ever see play the game, and Westbrook is a hybrid guard who gets by on athleticism. Sure, he scored 31 points, but most of that was going one on one or in transition. Aside from Durant (who was about as good as Paul last night), no other starter had more than 7 points. The point guard is supposed to get people going when the offense is struggling. Paul did it last night, Westbrook just "got his". Watching last night's game it was easy to see why truly great point guards are so valuable. Playing the point is an art. You can't be a true legend and get by on athleticism or quickness or pure ability. It takes unquantifiable things like feel for the game, know how, and heart to go from good to great at the position. CP3 clearly has it and Westbrook clearly doesn't.

Maybe OKC can still win a title with Westbrook at the point if Durant can carry them to it, but my gut tells me that it isn't going to happen. He's far from a bad player, but he's equally as far from a great one despite his numbers. That's not news to anyone, but last night was about as clear of a contrast as I've ever seen.


Tue Jan 31, 2012 12:13 pm
Post Re: I Don't Know How Many Basketball Fans We Have Here, But...
Agreed on Westbrook. I know this might sound silly, but OKC should consider trading him. Probably won't be good karma, but it's an easy way to make the team better. I've gone from ambivalent feelings on James Harden to outright loving him. The dude is fantastic and should not be coming off the bench. He simply needs to play more minutes and get a few more shots. Obviously, you cannot just start him and leave a 2nd unit with virtually no offense. Trade Westbrook for a good pass first PG and another solid player and you're good to go. To use Simmons' logic, this is a rare case where trading a $2 player for two $1 players might make sense.

Also: can you guys remember that Tyson Chandler was traded to OKC a few years back but they voided the trade because of concerns about his toe? It seemed like good business to void the move at the time. Chandler was always injured and it wasn't good business sense to take on the salary when they did not need to. And yet...Tyson Chandler is exactly the type of player that could get this team to a title (and that very much includes a team with Westbrook). Chandler is putting up wonderful numbers while playing awesome defense. Wish he was on a better t-e-a-m.

Have you guys seen the quote from Melo a couple of weeks ago? He said that maybe "he shouldn't be shooting so much" but then goes on to add that those shots normally fall for him. I know guys here don't love Amare, but I truly believe that NYC would be better with Amare as the go-to guy. Anthony jacking <0.400 shots from isolation plays is just not a good strategy. At least Amare is very efficient on one end of the floor.

And, how great is it that Denver continues to play so well? They've fallen off a bit of late, but they can legitimately beat most teams in the league. Their lack of a go-to guy is both a blessing and a curse. It makes them so tough to guard for about 43 minutes. In those last 5 minutes though...

Finally: All-Star picks! :?:

I know everyone has already said it, but picking all-stars now is ridiculous. Many teams (like the defending champions) have not even figured out what their best lineup is. We're choosing all-stars while teams are still figuring things out? Damn.

Anywho, Zach Lowe had a nice write-up about his all-stars. As always, I dig him because of his articulate explanations and willingness to take a risk or two (snubbing Melo from his ballot entirely!)

http://nba-point-forward.si.com/2012/02/06/point-forwards-eastern-conf-all-stars/
http://nba-point-forward.si.com/2012/02/06/point-forwards-western-conf-all-stars/


Mon Feb 06, 2012 8:45 pm
Post Re: I Don't Know How Many Basketball Fans We Have Here, But...
Snubbing Melo isn't a risk.


Carmelo Anthony is the single most overrated player in the entire NBA. Look at the Knicks. Now look at the Nuggets. Now agree. Pierce should start at SF ahead of him. I don't think even Wade touches Pierce's dominance (nor team value) thus far, though I'm open to arguing about it. As for D-Will... It's over for him. He'll never be a big deal in the NBA like he could have before. He should have stayed in Utah or went to a better team. It's. All. Over. For real.


Tue Feb 07, 2012 12:45 pm
Post Re: I Don't Know How Many Basketball Fans We Have Here, But...
Evenflow8112 wrote:
Carmelo Anthony is the single most overrated player in the entire NBA. Look at the Knicks. Now look at the Nuggets. Now agree.


I disagree a little. I don't think Melo's even the most overrated on his team. Unlike Amar'e, Melo's a legitimately elite scorer, and there's no denying that. Anyone who thinks Melo is a superstar is overrating him, yes, but I don't know that that's a whole bunch of people these days.

Evenflow8112 wrote:
Pierce should start at SF ahead of him.


This is true. Pierce (another truly elite scorer) has been fairly insane the past few weeks.

Evenflow8112 wrote:
I don't think even Wade touches Pierce's dominance (nor team value) thus far


It's interesting because what you're saying is true, but Wade is unquestionably the better player right now. As has been pointed out a lot in recent weeks by the major media (and has been championed here by us since the beginning), Wade and Bron will never truly excel playing on the court together. They'll hook up on sick alley-oops, yes, and if both stay healthy they can be dominant by taking turns on offense, but it is and will always be awkward for them to play together. None of their skills mesh.

Evenflow8112 wrote:
As for D-Will... It's over for him. He'll never be a big deal in the NBA like he could have before. He should have stayed in Utah or went to a better team. It's. All. Over. For real.


I think this is insane. Have you watched the Nets this year? As the article Ed posted notes, DWill is taking perhaps the most supremely untalented backcourt assembled and making them competent on offense. He's turned Kris Humphries into a borderline All-Star candidate. You say he should have gone to a better team, but you seem to be forgetting that he can move on on his own after this season. He might be playing in Dallas next year with Dwight starting at center. Maybe he doesn't stay in the tip-top-tier of PGs as some thought he would, but he's hardly done. I don't get your logic here at all.

ed_metal_head wrote:
Agreed on Westbrook. I know this might sound silly, but OKC should consider trading him. Probably won't be good karma, but it's an easy way to make the team better. I've gone from ambivalent feelings on James Harden to outright loving him. The dude is fantastic and should not be coming off the bench. He simply needs to play more minutes and get a few more shots. Obviously, you cannot just start him and leave a 2nd unit with virtually no offense. Trade Westbrook for a good pass first PG and another solid player and you're good to go. To use Simmons' logic, this is a rare case where trading a $2 player for two $1 players might make sense.


Yeah. It seems that since he signed the extension everyone thinks it's all honky-dory in OKC. I don't think so. They're built to compete for a ring, not to win one. It's just hard to imagine them making consistent stops against the elite teams like you need to to win a ring. They can get out the weak West, perhaps, but I feel like Miami or Chicago would cream them in the Finals.

Which brings me to another point: who are the real title contenders? We're all happy to see Denver, Philly and Indiana doing so well, and each could go far, but are they winning a ring? No way. ATL, Orlando, Houston, Portland? No thanks, move along. The Mavs were too depleted and won't get to the Conference finals. Boston has no chance unless they move a big name, which won't happen. The Spurs won't stay healthy and even if they did, I'm not sure they could beat OKC in the playoffs, much less an Eastern team. The Clippers are intriguing for one reason alone: Chris Paul. He has been the best player in the league for stretches of the past few years. But as must be said every time, they're the Clippers. And they're really flawed.

If you're Miami or Chicago, don't you have to believe this is an easy year for the taking if you can beat the other? No other teams can play that level of defense AND offense. Kobe the Bean and his band of misfit toys? His play has been ridiculous this year, no doubt. He could absolutely beat any team in the West in a series nearly by himself, but I don't see him beating two teams that way. People are quick to write them off right now, but they could still swing a deal and put themselves in it.

Oh, and Kevin Love totally and completely stepped on Scola's face on purpose. Just own up to it and move on, dude.


Tue Feb 07, 2012 5:11 pm
Post Re: I Don't Know How Many Basketball Fans We Have Here, But...
Shade wrote:
Evenflow8112 wrote:
As for D-Will... It's over for him. He'll never be a big deal in the NBA like he could have before. He should have stayed in Utah or went to a better team. It's. All. Over. For real.


I think this is insane. Have you watched the Nets this year? As the article Ed posted notes, DWill is taking perhaps the most supremely untalented backcourt assembled and making them competent on offense. He's turned Kris Humphries into a borderline All-Star candidate. You say he should have gone to a better team, but you seem to be forgetting that he can move on on his own after this season. He might be playing in Dallas next year with Dwight starting at center. Maybe he doesn't stay in the tip-top-tier of PGs as some thought he would, but he's hardly done. I don't get your logic here at all.


Yeah I don't quite understand Philius' point here either. And it's not like Williams asked to be traded to the Nets. By all accounts, he was shocked to hear that he was traded at all. No doubt that he was disgruntled and might not have re-signed. Smart move by Utah to rebuild before it became a circus. It's incredibly unlikely that he stays after this season too. The Nets have to get Howard, as simple as that. Get Howard and he'll stay. Don't get Howard and he's gone. He could be shooting better but the drop in percentage could very well be down to opposing defenses focusing most of their energy on him. Have you seen the Nets' starting 5? Williams aside, there's probably more talent 2-5 in Charlotte or Washington.

Shade wrote:
If you're Miami or Chicago, don't you have to believe this is an easy year for the taking if you can beat the other? No other teams can play that level of defense AND offense. Kobe the Bean and his band of misfit toys? His play has been ridiculous this year, no doubt. He could absolutely beat any team in the West in a series nearly by himself, but I don't see him beating two teams that way. People are quick to write them off right now, but they could still swing a deal and put themselves in it.

Oh, and Kevin Love totally and completely stepped on Scola's face on purpose. Just own up to it and move on, dude.


Agreed. For the first time in many years, the West has little chance of getting a championship. Of course, D-Rose and LBJ could both slip on a curb in May and everything will be up in the air. Good chance that a low seed makes a deep run. Could be Boston, actually (provided their bench doesn't play in the playoffs). Please don't let it be Miami though. Please....

Btw, have you guys noticed that LeBron is putting up one of the best seasons ever? Dude can flat out ball (for 43 minutes or so...). He's my early-early vote for MVP. Who's yours?


Tue Feb 07, 2012 8:23 pm
Post Re: I Don't Know How Many Basketball Fans We Have Here, But...
- D-Will is cooked. I wasn't sure he had so many fans on this forum, but whatever. That's not to say he won't be solid, or impressive at some point in the future, but he is a conditional talent, not a super-star. He cost himself the opportunity to have a brilliantly crafted career by being dramatic last year and forcing Utah's hand and, especially considering how good the Jazz are this season and how weak the Western Conference is this season, that has to be considered a missed opportunity. No way he receives much greater opportunities for a title run, and if he does receive this chance, it will be either years down the road or an an ancillary, maybe incidental, player. I think D-Will's career reacts to the wreckage of this past year, but never fully recovers. And Kris Humphries owes equally as much credit to Lopez's foot for his resurgence this season, as his workload has undeniably had to increase. He's reacted accordingly. D-Will isn't a bad player, and he deserves some credit for Humphries' success this season, but he is not the key to the Net's success (which, incidentally, comes rarely and in short supply) and simply does not look as valuable as he did in Utah.

- I agree with you 100% Shade, in that Dwayne Wade is UNDENIABLY better than Pierce in terms of talent. I'd argue that Wade is still one of the top five or three in the game. However, I think the All-Star game should be about results over the year, not simply raw ability - which, all respect to Carmelo's obviously outsized talent, is the reason the link that was posted doesn't even bother putting Melo in the All-Star equation - and so far, Pierce has proven himself a versatile monster of a leader and that, perhaps surprisingly, the Celtics can run through him as effectively as they do through Rondo's hands.

Additionally: Where is Pierce on the All-time Celtics list now? Pretty high, right? A great example of a solid player's reputation ballooning due to his perseverance, will, and commitment to his franchise. I'm personally happy that he, and not Allen, Garnett, or even Rondo, was the one to break Bird's mark. And I love all of those guys.

- Kevin Love definitely committed that penalty and totally deserved his suspension. He's also one of the most legit All-Stars in the past 10 years. He is an undeniable presence and the most consistent guy in the league not named LeBron or Kobe.

- Andrew Bynum is having a fantasy season right now, but you just know if he gets sent to Orlando that he'll drop off. Right now he's performing to not get traded for an obviously better player. That's the best motivational opportunity the Lakers will ever get. They should just put 'We Like Howard Better' on Bynum's locker. All season. He might become Wilt Chamberlain-like by the first round.

- Are the Magic the NBA's Colts? I'm guessing they reach 50 losses when he leaves, no matter who they get for him.

- The Oklahoma City Thunder will be the champions this season. Yes, with Westbrook and Durant, the tense duo, the undeniably talented guys who clash on and off the court. How do I feel like this can work? Oh yeah - Shaq and Kobe. Lock. I invite you to disagree.

- Kobe is the greatest player since MJ. Sorry, LeBron, but you don't ever compare. Call me in 10 years, at least. Kobe is simply the best damn player to lace up in the past 15 years.

- The Mavs - what to make of them? I think they have a deep run in them (much like how I feel about Indiana), but I just don't see how they are still performing at this high of a level. Cuban's like the Bill Belichick of the NBA. He just gets shit done. He's like MacGuyver with nothing but money and pure inventiveness. He's the best example of an owner in any sport that I can think of (beating 'Rockin' Jim Irsay by about a million points). For the second straight year, though, I don't see Dallas winning it all. Hopefully, I'm wrong again. I like Dirk too much to see him lose to those jobber-ish MoHeatos.

- The Miami Heat's true sin for the Mega-Deal is that they really only needed LeBron or Wade with Bosh. This much became obvious earlier in the season went Wade went out. Having all three is a gratuity. It's not even necessarily a benefit all of the time. Bosh and Bron/Wade would have been a tough pair to top anywhere. Maybe the Heat paid for overloading their deck. Their best benefit for having LeBron and Wade on the same team, ultimately, is not having one of them competing against them on another team. That looks pretty silly to me. And a bit unfair.

P.S. - Mind you, I'm not saying that they cancel each other out, or that it makes the Heat less competitive. But Wade and Bron are not a pair made for play with each other. Bosh was the clincher for that deal, since a team with just Born and Wade and a regular PF would arguably be little more than good. It seems hard to envision that Finals appearance sans Bosh.

- The Clippers - are they the 2008 Celtics reborn? The new, upstart team that rides a wave of momentum to a championship in the face of a still stunned league?

Naaaaaaah, but you have to like their ability to make noise. A Lakers-Clips series in the playoffs is going to be the highest-Tivo'ed event ever. How much wasted time will their be in that series? Five seconds? So stoked.

- Chicago, barring an unforeseen trade for Dwight, will lose to the Heat 9 out of 10 times in the playoffs. I truly believe that. It's sad, since the Bulls are among the best definitions of a 'team' in the NBA (a distinction that the Celtics, after their Rondo and Allen-less flurry of wins, still corner the market on), and the Heat are an insult to the integrity of the sport, even when they work hard not to be. The Bulls just aren't a great playoff team. They might not even survive another closer-than-it-appeared series with a much-improved Indiana. The Eastern Conference Championship is a steep slope for Rose & Co. to climb in their current form.


Wed Feb 08, 2012 12:47 pm
Post Re: I Don't Know How Many Basketball Fans We Have Here, But...
Evenflow8112 wrote:
D-Will is cooked. I wasn't sure he had so many fans on this forum, but whatever. That's not to say he won't be solid, or impressive at some point in the future, but he is a conditional talent, not a super-star. He cost himself the opportunity to have a brilliantly crafted career by being dramatic last year and forcing Utah's hand and, especially considering how good the Jazz are this season and how weak the Western Conference is this season, that has to be considered a missed opportunity. No way he receives much greater opportunities for a title run, and if he does receive this chance, it will be either years down the road or an an ancillary, maybe incidental, player.


Again, dude: he could end up in Dallas with Dwight next year. I'm not saying that guarantees a chain of rings, but it's not like he's locked in Jersey.

Evenflow8112 wrote:
he is not the key to the Net's success


Please please don't take this question as sarcastic douchebaggery, because it's not intended that way, but how many Nyets games have you watched this year? He's playing very hard and very well and is the only key to their success. You're certainly correct that success doesn't come often and I don't think anyone disagrees with you that he's below SuperStar status. And no one's saying he looks better in Jersey than he did during his best Utah years. But again, there's a good chance these two years end up being a blip on a good long career.

Evenflow8112 wrote:
agree with you 100% Shade, in that Dwayne Wade is UNDENIABLY better than Pierce in terms of talent. I'd argue that Wade is still one of the top five or three in the game. However, I think the All-Star game should be about results over the year, not simply raw ability


I certainly agree...but even as a C's fan, I'm not sure Pierce has been great long enough this year to warrant a starting spot. He was very very bad (due to being out of shape because of injuries) when he started playing this year. He's been excellent and one of the 10 best players in the league over their last 10 games or so, but I'm not sure that's enough. Do I think his peak performance this year tops DWade's peak so far this year? Yeah I do, but not by much.

Evenflow8112 wrote:
Where is Pierce on the All-time Celtics list now? Pretty high, right? A great example of a solid player's reputation ballooning due to his perseverance, will, and commitment to his franchise.


It's definitely a story that deserves bigger notice. He stuck things out very willingly.

Evenflow8112 wrote:
The Oklahoma City Thunder will be the champions this season. Yes, with Westbrook and Durant, the tense duo, the undeniably talented guys who clash on and off the court. How do I feel like this can work? Oh yeah - Shaq and Kobe. Lock. I invite you to disagree.


But Shaq and Kobe, for all their personal disagreement, were built as players to compliment each other. You can't say that about Westbrook-Durant...there's at least 3 other PGs around the league who would be as good and perhaps better guys to run the show in OKC than Westbrook (who I love, by the way). Yes, Shaq & Kobe proved you can win while hating each other, but I don't think Durant-Westbrook have done that basketball-wise yet. Yet yet yet. I certainly think they're capable of winning it all, but they got thoroughly stomped by the Mavs last year. What makes you think they could beat the Heat?

Evenflow8112 wrote:
The Miami Heat's true sin for the Mega-Deal is that they really only needed LeBron or Wade with Bosh. This much became obvious earlier in the season went Wade went out. Having all three is a gratuity. It's not even necessarily a benefit all of the time. Bosh and Bron/Wade would have been a tough pair to top anywhere. Maybe the Heat paid for overloading their deck. Their best benefit for having LeBron and Wade on the same team, ultimately, is not having one of them competing against them on another team. That looks pretty silly to me. And a bit unfair.


I completely disagree that it's unfair -- there's nothing outside of the rules there and they should be able to go where they want. But as Simmons and many others have pointed out, watching them play together is like watching a Rock & Roll Hall of Fame performance with four lead guitarists playing together: it's kinda cool as novelty, until you realize it's mostly just awkward.

Evenflow8112 wrote:
Chicago, barring an unforeseen trade for Dwight, will lose to the Heat 9 out of 10 times in the playoffs.


This is probably true.

Evenflow8112 wrote:
The Bulls just aren't a great playoff team


This is absolutely not true. They're build for the playoffs in every sense, and yes, the Indy series was kinda-sorta close last year, but no closer than Miami-Philly was. The Bulls play half-court defense better than anyone in the league. No, they're not built to stop a varying barrage of Bron and Wade -- no one is built that way. But they'd beat everyone else with consistency in a series.

ed_metal_head wrote:
Btw, have you guys noticed that LeBron is putting up one of the best seasons ever? Dude can flat out ball (for 43 minutes or so...). He's my early-early vote for MVP. Who's yours?


If Bron's not your MVP so far, you just don't understand the game. There's no denial of this at this point at all. Even a little bit. He should get every vote.


Wed Feb 08, 2012 2:05 pm
Post Re: I Don't Know How Many Basketball Fans We Have Here, But...
Shade wrote:
Evenflow8112 wrote:
The Oklahoma City Thunder will be the champions this season. Yes, with Westbrook and Durant, the tense duo, the undeniably talented guys who clash on and off the court. How do I feel like this can work? Oh yeah - Shaq and Kobe. Lock. I invite you to disagree.


But Shaq and Kobe, for all their personal disagreement, were built as players to compliment each other. You can't say that about Westbrook-Durant...there's at least 3 other PGs around the league who would be as good and perhaps better guys to run the show in OKC than Westbrook (who I love, by the way). Yes, Shaq & Kobe proved you can win while hating each other, but I don't think Durant-Westbrook have done that basketball-wise yet. Yet yet yet. I certainly think they're capable of winning it all, but they got thoroughly stomped by the Mavs last year. What makes you think they could beat the Heat?

Evenflow8112 wrote:
The Miami Heat's true sin for the Mega-Deal is that they really only needed LeBron or Wade with Bosh. This much became obvious earlier in the season went Wade went out. Having all three is a gratuity. It's not even necessarily a benefit all of the time. Bosh and Bron/Wade would have been a tough pair to top anywhere. Maybe the Heat paid for overloading their deck. Their best benefit for having LeBron and Wade on the same team, ultimately, is not having one of them competing against them on another team. That looks pretty silly to me. And a bit unfair.


I completely disagree that it's unfair -- there's nothing outside of the rules there and they should be able to go where they want. But as Simmons and many others have pointed out, watching them play together is like watching a Rock & Roll Hall of Fame performance with four lead guitarists playing together: it's kinda cool as novelty, until you realize it's mostly just awkward.

Evenflow8112 wrote:
The Bulls just aren't a great playoff team


This is absolutely not true. They're build for the playoffs in every sense, and yes, the Indy series was kinda-sorta close last year, but no closer than Miami-Philly was. The Bulls play half-court defense better than anyone in the league. No, they're not built to stop a varying barrage of Bron and Wade -- no one is built that way. But they'd beat everyone else with consistency in a series.


1. Just watch. When the worst thing you can say about a team is that their talent doesn't always get along, then things are looking bright regardless. Certainly nobody's questioning OKC's skills, record, consistency on the road, and NOBODY expects Dallas to play the way they did last season. Yes, OKC was unprepared for the Mavs' level of play - yet, if you believed the Heat were the best team in the East by virtue of simply making it to the Finals, so was everyone else. That was probably a once-in-a-lifetime championship run (which makes it all the more special and unforgettable). I think OKC is the favorite until LeBron out-clutches Durant. And I already agree with you beforehand - I don't see that happening, either.

2. It is unfair, only in that the team is stacked with unnecessary talent at the 2-spot. I don't think they're the Yankees of the NBA (the Democrats-Republicans system of the MLB always takes me out of baseball), and I never once questioned the ethics of the move which united these players. But I do think it's fair to question to relative wisdom of it, and I think it's absolutely a luxury provided Miami due to circumstances not entirely unrelated to basketball and the salary cap; imagine the Raptors or the Hawks pulling that trade off. Thank you. I agree again entirely.

3. You were on a streak. You agreed with me for one point! And then... tragedy. The Bulls are almost a one-man show in the playoffs. How dare you compare the Heat-Philly series (a first-round slumber party) to a series where the Bulls lived and died on Rose's MVP-caliber brilliance. If LeBron or Wade no-showed, the Heat still take that puppy, and they will continue to be odds-on favorites for each and every series they play in the East. If Rose is anything less than a monster, the Bulls will be in fairly legitimate danger of being upset. They're obviously the favorites after Miami to win the East, don't get me twisted - logic still prevails in sports (just ask New England's defense), but the divide between the Bulls and say, the Celtics, isn't as deep as you might figure by looking at the last two seasons. Even the TD-Garden smackdown the Bulls put on the Celts earlier this year looks like a relic of last season rather than a postseason indicator at this point. And yes, I think the C's had a perfectly fair opportunity to knock Chicago off last year had they faced them in the second round. I almost love those odds. If the C's open up their game and get progressively better (even with the definite lumps they'll take through stretches of the season), then I kinda like their odds this year, too. It's almost laughable to consider the C's contenders for the overall title (I'd feel better laying all my money on Dallas this time last year), but I defy you to tell me the Bulls are, in the span of a seven-game series, the odds-on favorites. That very line of thought alone makes me value the Heat's chances much more than Chicago's. The one thing that tips a Conference Championship re-match is whether or not Rose brings his 'A' game each night, and whether or not there is an emerging Jason-Terry level type of player or two on the Bulls waiting for their moment to steal the spotlight and break some hearts. Sure didn't look like it last year, though.


Wed Feb 08, 2012 3:15 pm
Post Re: I Don't Know How Many Basketball Fans We Have Here, But...
Shade wrote:
Evenflow8112 wrote:
D-Will is cooked. I wasn't sure he had so many fans on this forum, but whatever. That's not to say he won't be solid, or impressive at some point in the future, but he is a conditional talent, not a super-star. He cost himself the opportunity to have a brilliantly crafted career by being dramatic last year and forcing Utah's hand and, especially considering how good the Jazz are this season and how weak the Western Conference is this season, that has to be considered a missed opportunity. No way he receives much greater opportunities for a title run, and if he does receive this chance, it will be either years down the road or an an ancillary, maybe incidental, player.


Again, dude: he could end up in Dallas with Dwight next year. I'm not saying that guarantees a chain of rings, but it's not like he's locked in Jersey.


I seriously doubt that happens, mostly because Cuban, genius he is, won't be able to swing Dwight and D-Will. Dwight will NEVER head to Dallas because their trade assets, aside from Dirk (who is, frankly, not trade-able), are so lackluster and Dallas won't survive an open-market contest for him. Of course, last time I voted against Dallas, guess what happened... and I wouldn't mind seeing Dirk gets a second and third ring, either. I just don't see that as a possible outcome. And if the Mavs only land D-Will, then I don't see any difference higher than five or so more games than they'd usually win in a regular season - maybe.


Wed Feb 08, 2012 3:23 pm
Post Re: I Don't Know How Many Basketball Fans We Have Here, But...
Evenflow8112 wrote:
1. Just watch. When the worst thing you can say about a team is that their talent doesn't always get along, then things are looking bright regardless.


I think it's more of a basketball issue than it is a team chemistry issue. Westbrook and Durant just don't compliment each other on the court very well. Westbrook isn't a true PG and he's at his most valuable when he's allowed to run up and down the court and use his athleticism to make plays. Durant is such an effective and efficient scorer and all around offensive player, that he's at his most valuable when a pass-first PG is running an offense tailored to get him the ball where he wants it. Imagine how deadly they'd be if they would run a simple pick and roll from time to time. The fact is, Westbrook isn't a capable enough passer (or a patient enough player) to effectively run the pick and roll.

They're both incredible individual players, but they don't work very well on the court together. They aren't the mismatch that Lebron and Wade are, but no one's going to mistake them for peanut butter and jelly, either.

Evenflow8112 wrote:
2. It is unfair, only in that the team is stacked with unnecessary talent at the 2-spot. I don't think they're the Yankees of the NBA (the Democrats-Republicans system of the MLB always takes me out of baseball), and I never once questioned the ethics of the move which united these players. But I do think it's fair to question to relative wisdom of it, and I think it's absolutely a luxury provided Miami due to circumstances not entirely unrelated to basketball and the salary cap; imagine the Raptors or the Hawks pulling that trade off. Thank you. I agree again entirely.


Phil, I say this with all due respect - I think you need to learn what the word "unfair" means. :P

I'd say a better word to describe the Bron/Wade pairing is indulgent. A great team doesn't need 2 world class wing players. One will do just fine. The money spent on Wade or Bron would have been better served rounding out the roster by adding a real NBA-caliber center, a PG who can run an offense, and some depth. This isn't anything new to most of us in this thread, but the point is always a valid one to bring up when discussing this team. That's not to say they can't win as is, because they certainly can. It's just usually easier to win a title when there is an established pecking order. That's awkward when you have 2 of the 3 or 4 best players in the league playing essentially the same position.

Evenflow8112 wrote:
If Rose is anything less than a monster, the Bulls will be in fairly legitimate danger of being upset.


True, but that's how that team is constructed. Couldn't you have said the same about Dirk's Mavs last season? It isn't like Chicago is the only team to surround a superstar with a plethora of above average players and try to compete for a ring. Sure, their ultimate success boils down to how effective their superstar can be, but isn't that the case for a lot of teams? It doesn't seem fair to fault the Bulls, or consider them a lesser contender, because of that. They're an elite defensive team with a superstar capable of closing games. They're a legitimate contender even if I also think the Heat are probably better.

Evenflow8112 wrote:
Shade wrote:
Evenflow8112 wrote:
D-Will is cooked. I wasn't sure he had so many fans on this forum, but whatever. That's not to say he won't be solid, or impressive at some point in the future, but he is a conditional talent, not a super-star. He cost himself the opportunity to have a brilliantly crafted career by being dramatic last year and forcing Utah's hand and, especially considering how good the Jazz are this season and how weak the Western Conference is this season, that has to be considered a missed opportunity. No way he receives much greater opportunities for a title run, and if he does receive this chance, it will be either years down the road or an an ancillary, maybe incidental, player.


Again, dude: he could end up in Dallas with Dwight next year. I'm not saying that guarantees a chain of rings, but it's not like he's locked in Jersey.


I seriously doubt that happens, mostly because Cuban, genius he is, won't be able to swing Dwight and D-Will. Dwight will NEVER head to Dallas because their trade assets, aside from Dirk (who is, frankly, not trade-able), are so lackluster and Dallas won't survive an open-market contest for him. Of course, last time I voted against Dallas, guess what happened... and I wouldn't mind seeing Dirk gets a second and third ring, either. I just don't see that as a possible outcome. And if the Mavs only land D-Will, then I don't see any difference higher than five or so more games than they'd usually win in a regular season - maybe.


Howard is a free agent after this season and Orlando may not trade him this year. My gut tells me they will, but I'll never underestimate the stupidity of one Otis Smith. The point is, he could easily sign with Dallas in the offseason. Should that happen, D-Will is a virtual lock to sign there as well (he's from the area and my guess is he ends up in Dallas either way). It's a well within reason possibility considering Dallas has $30 million coming off their cap after this season and can still amnesty Haywood (another $8 million). That's a lot of money to throw at those guys to play for a great owner and a first class organization.


Wed Feb 08, 2012 4:05 pm
Post Re: I Don't Know How Many Basketball Fans We Have Here, But...
I agree that Lebron is the MVP so far, but my second place vote goes to Kevin Durant, and I think the vote is closer than people realize. I know it sounds impossible, but I think Durant is kind of underrated. Whenever he's mentioned people talk about how he's the best pure scorer in the game. While that's true, I think it's a disservice to how well rounded he's become as a basketball player. I mean, he's shooting over 50% from the floor this season (oddly his 3pt % and FT% are both low for him), averaging career highs in boards and assists (8.3 and 3.4, respectively), and chipping in a block and a steal per game (1.4 and 1.2 to be exact). Lebron's been slightly better, but it's really close. There's also the fact that anyone with a shred of NBA intelligence would rather have the ball in Durant's hands at the end of a game than Lebron's. Durant's having an insane year, and I can't remember that last time anyone has talked about how great that kid has become outside of his ability to score. He's the second best player in the league right now.

I've said it before, but that guy has a 30, 8, and 5 season in him. Hell, he might have a 30, 10, and 5 season in him. He's STILL only 23!


Thu Feb 09, 2012 11:46 am
Post Re: I Don't Know How Many Basketball Fans We Have Here, But...
Speaking of MVPs... Hey guys, notice how the Clippers have one of the best records in basketball, there is finally a legit Lakers-Clippers L.A. rivalry, and it seems like the Clippers have a 50/50 chance of beating almost anyone?

Do you hear anyone rooting for Chris Paul as MVP? No. You don't.


He'll never be MVP. I win! I win! The 'Being Right' Championship is all mine! It might be a lonely parade, though *cue ironic defeat in victory music*.


In other news... The Nuggets tailspin: temporary, or fatal? They sure look wobbly when closing games out. Are they paying tribute to LeBron-tosaurus? Are they running out of fuel? Have teams found an answer for them? I doubt it's that bleak, but they do seem to be running out of steam lately. I'd say their odds of making Top 4-seed in the West is entirely dependent on getting Chandler back.

And, yes, of course LeBron is MVP. He's the Dan Marino of basketball players. If/when he gets that ring, he's the Peyton Manning of basketball. There should never be a season in the next five-six years where he doesn't lead the MVP poll in the regular season. He was made for the regular season and for one-game playoffs. It's when he has to craft a postseason of consistency and clutch-ness that he runs into trouble. There's simply no better marathon player than him, and if that's the criteria for MVP (and yes it fucking well is, to answer to my own question), then he is the odds-on favorite each year. Durant is approaching him and Kobe's still a workhorse (the one MVP seems like an anomaly, but that's probably his only one), but in this particular discussion there's LeBron... and then there's everybody else. There's no better lock, except maybe for Dwight Howard winning another default (and frankly, worthless) DPOY trophy.


Thu Feb 09, 2012 2:19 pm
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Post Re: I Don't Know How Many Basketball Fans We Have Here, But...
Spurs rock.

That's it. That's all I wanted to say. The West is wide open.

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Mon Feb 13, 2012 1:39 am
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Post Re: I Don't Know How Many Basketball Fans We Have Here, But...
Lin is for real. The kid continues to impress.


Wed Feb 15, 2012 12:09 pm
Post Re: I Don't Know How Many Basketball Fans We Have Here, But...
I'm going to be in NYC this weekend, I checked to see how much tickets would cost to Sunday's Mavs-Knicks game at the Garden would run me. The damage? $200 for a nose bleed seat. $200!!! There's just no chance I'm paying that much for a bad seat. I'll gladly shell out $20 a ticket to see the Globetrotters there Saturday night instead.

Linsanity has taken over the world!


Thu Feb 16, 2012 4:19 pm
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