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July 08, 2014: "Fuck off, Shitbag" 
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Post Re: July 08, 2014: "Fuck off, Shitbag"
Sexual Chocolate wrote:
Vexer wrote:
I really don't see what's so wrong with that, i'm nostalgic for 80s music simply because IMO it's a lot better then much of the crap that passes for music today, I also love a lot of 80s movies.


As someone who grew up in the 80s, allow me to say that it is easy to look at the period through rose-colored glasses. Yes, there was a lot of excellent music in the 1980s. But it's easy to forget that there was an incredible amount of shitty music that hit the charts as well. Look hard enough and you'll find it.


The 80s had a large amount of dreck. But there was good stuff if one knew where to look.

The primary problem with nostalgia is that it involves looking idealistically through the aforementioned rose-colored glasses. I see a large amount of 60s nostalgia pop up that conveniently omits Vietnam.

I try not to succumb to it myself. But I see how easy it is to do so. In some ways, I've reluctantly accepted that the 90s (specifically the 1992-96 period) were my favorite musical era of the ones I've been alive for. Great rock, great hip-hop, pretty good R*B, mainstream pop that (with a few exceptions most notably Michael Bolton) was for the most part better than 90% of mainstream pop today. Hell, Aerosmith had only just started to sell out. sure there was a fair amount of dreck in that era too (The Macarena comes to mind immediately along with the aforementioned Barbie Girl

The main problem with most popular music since the late 90s or there about is the utter disposability of so much of it. I was surprised when I was in college in 1998-2000 how many people there were totally into Britney Spears. I was asked by someone who'd once been into Nine Inch Nails to help put up a fan site for the Spice Girls.

From there, it was a long spiral to the likes of Bieber.

I more or less gave up on most mainstream stuff around the time Nickelback and the aforementioned Bieber were being considered legitimate musical acts.

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Sun Jul 13, 2014 10:01 pm
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Post Re: July 08, 2014: "Fuck off, Shitbag"
I actually like Britney Spears. Well, old school Britney. Not so much her more recent stuff.


Mon Jul 14, 2014 12:46 am
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Post Re: July 08, 2014: "Fuck off, Shitbag"
Jeff Wilder wrote:
Sexual Chocolate wrote:
Vexer wrote:
I really don't see what's so wrong with that, i'm nostalgic for 80s music simply because IMO it's a lot better then much of the crap that passes for music today, I also love a lot of 80s movies.


As someone who grew up in the 80s, allow me to say that it is easy to look at the period through rose-colored glasses. Yes, there was a lot of excellent music in the 1980s. But it's easy to forget that there was an incredible amount of shitty music that hit the charts as well. Look hard enough and you'll find it.


The 80s had a large amount of dreck. But there was good stuff if one knew where to look.

The primary problem with nostalgia is that it involves looking idealistically through the aforementioned rose-colored glasses. I see a large amount of 60s nostalgia pop up that conveniently omits Vietnam.

I try not to succumb to it myself. But I see how easy it is to do so. In some ways, I've reluctantly accepted that the 90s (specifically the 1992-96 period) were my favorite musical era of the ones I've been alive for. Great rock, great hip-hop, pretty good R*B, mainstream pop that (with a few exceptions most notably Michael Bolton) was for the most part better than 90% of mainstream pop today. Hell, Aerosmith had only just started to sell out. sure there was a fair amount of dreck in that era too (The Macarena comes to mind immediately along with the aforementioned Barbie Girl

The main problem with most popular music since the late 90s or there about is the utter disposability of so much of it. I was surprised when I was in college in 1998-2000 how many people there were totally into Britney Spears. I was asked by someone who'd once been into Nine Inch Nails to help put up a fan site for the Spice Girls.

From there, it was a long spiral to the likes of Bieber.

I more or less gave up on most mainstream stuff around the time Nickelback and the aforementioned Bieber were being considered legitimate musical acts.

Well everyone has their own opinion on what bands are "shit" and which ones aren't though, and in my opinion even the lesser 80s bands are still better then a lot of the crap that passes for music nowadays.

I do like pop music like Britney and Spice Girls though, I don't really give a rat's ass if it's "disposable" or not, that dosen't really matter to me as long as the song itself is decent for the genre(at the very least it beats the hell out of most country music IMO).

I liked Michael Bolton's hard rock 80s period, but not his more well-known adult contemporary period.

I'll admit I used to dislike Nickelback back when my sister was listening to them a lot, but now things have switched, she longer likes them but somehow they grew on me, can't really explain it.

Surprisingly enough, both of my parents like Miley Cyrus(at least enough to watch her recent TV special), can't say I was expecting that.


Mon Jul 14, 2014 2:51 am
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Post Re: July 08, 2014: "Fuck off, Shitbag"
Here's the deal: Pop music has always been and will always be disposable. There's a long history of silly pop songs ("Tutti Frutti" or "Purple People Eater," anyone?). The difference is that you don't need talent to make it in pop music anymore. Take Katy Perry, who can't sing...20 years ago she never would have broken through, because back then you still needed to be able to sing at least. Now, not so.

Furthermore, a lot of pop music sounds all the same. And I don't mean a few chords the same, I mean every song has the same beat. Listen to this really quick: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UxxajLWwzqY That's a cookie-cutter copy of just about everything on the radio. Even in the 1980s, which is often (unfairly) labeled as all dreck, you had quirky stuff like "Rock Me Amadeus" next to "Girls Just Want To Have Fun" next to "Love Shack." Like those songs or not, there are some very obvious differences.

So TL:DR, today's pop music is shittier. But it's always been disposable.

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Mon Jul 14, 2014 9:55 pm
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Post Re: July 08, 2014: "Fuck off, Shitbag"
I think Katy Perry is okay. I do agree that a lot of today's music is crap, but Perry is okay.


Mon Jul 14, 2014 10:06 pm
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Post Re: July 08, 2014: "Fuck off, Shitbag"
Sexual Chocolate wrote:
Here's the deal: Pop music has always been and will always be disposable. There's a long history of silly pop songs ("Tutti Frutti" or "Purple People Eater," anyone?). The difference is that you don't need talent to make it in pop music anymore. Take Katy Perry, who can't sing...20 years ago she never would have broken through, because back then you still needed to be able to sing at least. Now, not so.

Furthermore, a lot of pop music sounds all the same. And I don't mean a few chords the same, I mean every song has the same beat. Listen to this really quick: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UxxajLWwzqY That's a cookie-cutter copy of just about everything on the radio. Even in the 1980s, which is often (unfairly) labeled as all dreck, you had quirky stuff like "Rock Me Amadeus" next to "Girls Just Want To Have Fun" next to "Love Shack." Like those songs or not, there are some very obvious differences.

So TL:DR, today's pop music is shittier. But it's always been disposable.

I strongly disagree that Katy Perry can't sing, unlike a lot of vocalists she dosen't use auto-tune, I for one think she's a great singer and think she would've quite well 20 years ago.

For me one genre where pretty much every band sounds almost exactly the same is Death Metal, I seriously cannot for the life of me tell one DM vocalist from another most of the time, as it seems like they almost all use the same "Cookie-Monster-on-crack" vocals.

The type of pop music I hate the most is pop-punk groups like Simple Plan, Good Charlotte, Fallout Boy etc,. Those bands do sound awfully similar and they all suck.


Tue Jul 15, 2014 4:53 am
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Post Re: July 08, 2014: "Fuck off, Shitbag"
ilovemovies wrote:
I think Katy Perry is okay. I do agree that a lot of today's music is crap, but Perry is okay.

The only good thing going for today's music is either Adele or Imelda May.
2 Classic performers who can hold their one against anything from 50' 60's or 70's


Tue Jul 15, 2014 4:59 am
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Post Re: July 08, 2014: "Fuck off, Shitbag"
Katy Perry does use autotune. And she lip-synchs live. That's the telltale sign of someone who can't sing. Now, she's not alone; I just used her as an example. Kesha, Miley Cyrus, Britney Spears...they're all use autotune and lip-synch live. It's actually one of the most common things in today's music industry.

I my opinion, Milli Vanilli were ahead of their time. They got dragged across the coals for not singing on their records. Now nobody does. Give 'em back their Grammy.

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Tue Jul 15, 2014 7:00 am
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Post Re: July 08, 2014: "Fuck off, Shitbag"
Britney actually has a lovely voice when she uses it like in the song Everytime.

And though I get tired of hearing it EVERY 4th of July but Katy Perry's fireworks is pretty catchy and I like her voice in that song.


Tue Jul 15, 2014 8:24 am
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Post Re: July 08, 2014: "Fuck off, Shitbag"
I remember now why I only go to afternoon screenings when possible.

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Tue Jul 15, 2014 9:14 am
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Post Re: July 08, 2014: "Fuck off, Shitbag"
Though I don't like her music, I at least respect the fact that Katy Perry, for the most part, has complete creative control over her work -- and that she writes/co-writes nearly all her songs herself -- and that she can play instruments in addition to singing... whereas others like Spears, Cyrus and Bieber are mere puppets who have others doing everything for them. And while there's no question her voice is far from pristine, I'll still take it over Britney's paper-thin warbling or Christina's over-the-top bombast any day. :P

The biggest problem with music now is that the music itself now takes a back seat to spectacle. Whatever happened to simply going on stage and playing your songs? Granted, genuinely talented musicians such as Pink Floyd and David Bowie are equally guilty of bringing this about, but they never lost focus of the music in the process.

p604 wrote:
The only good thing going for today's music is either Adele or Imelda May.
2 Classic performers who can hold their one against anything from 50' 60's or 70's

Unless you're referring to strictly Top 40 performers, Jack White, The New Pornographers, and Queens of the Stone Age would like a word with you. :|


Tue Jul 15, 2014 9:28 am
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Post Re: July 08, 2014: "Fuck off, Shitbag"
Sexual Chocolate wrote:
Katy Perry does use autotune. And she lip-synchs live. That's the telltale sign of someone who can't sing. Now, she's not alone; I just used her as an example. Kesha, Miley Cyrus, Britney Spears...they're all use autotune and lip-synch live. It's actually one of the most common things in today's music industry.

I my opinion, Milli Vanilli were ahead of their time. They got dragged across the coals for not singing on their records. Now nobody does. Give 'em back their Grammy.

The Milli Vanilli thing was totally different then this though, they used totally different singers rather then just having their voices corrected, which is not the same thing, and they flat-out lied about it. I don't know if that deserves having their album deleted or losing a Grammy, but I would still say it was not a smart thing to do on their part.


Tue Jul 15, 2014 2:19 pm
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Post Re: July 08, 2014: "Fuck off, Shitbag"
H.I. McDonough wrote:
Though I don't like her music, I at least respect the fact that Katy Perry, for the most part, has complete creative control over her work -- and that she writes/co-writes nearly all her songs herself -- and that she can play instruments in addition to singing... whereas others like Spears, Cyrus and Bieber are mere puppets who have others doing everything for them. And while there's no question her voice is far from pristine, I'll still take it over Britney's paper-thin warbling or Christina's over-the-top bombast any day. :P

The biggest problem with music now is that the music itself now takes a back seat to spectacle. Whatever happened to simply going on stage and playing your songs? Granted, genuinely talented musicians such as Pink Floyd and David Bowie are equally guilty of bringing this about, but they never lost focus of the music in the process.

p604 wrote:
The only good thing going for today's music is either Adele or Imelda May.
2 Classic performers who can hold their one against anything from 50' 60's or 70's

Unless you're referring to strictly Top 40 performers, Jack White, The New Pornographers, and Queens of the Stone Age would like a word with you. :|


I think you hit on a major point here. I would like to follow up that over the past decade or so, the music industry and the popular music scene in general have become fragmented, where you have various different genres essentially appealing to and targeting select niches. The day when you could have a band or bands appealing to a broad swathe of a generation has largely ended. I suspect that part of this fragmentation is due to the very ease in which music can be downloaded and made available from the Internet via iTunes.

The very fragmentation has led music producers to focus on spectacle over music in an uphill battle to try to capture the attention of as large of the music-consuming public as possible, as a ROI.

There is a parallel in terms of how films are being distributed and released these days. The film and TV industry is also in the process of becoming increasingly fragmentary, where it is becoming more difficult for any one film to draw mass audiences and appeal broadly to a mass demographic. Hence the emphasis on tentpole films.


Tue Jul 15, 2014 2:22 pm
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Post Re: July 08, 2014: "Fuck off, Shitbag"
Getting a bit back on topic, I do think that the problem of rude behavior is worse today than it used to be. And while cellphones are a part of that, the fact that people can't seem to go 2 minutes without using them is a problem in other contexts as well.

I think the real problem may simply be with how the theaters are managed. Back when I was a kid, the theaters had ushers who walked the aisles during the movie. If someone was doing something to bother or disturb other patrons, they would be asked to stop it, and if they didn't, they'd be escorted out. They rarely had to actually even ask people to behave, because people knew that their behavior was being monitored and stuff that was going to lessen other people's movie experience wasn't going to be tolerated, not because people were better mannered back then (though it's probable that overall, people were better mannered in public back then).

But now, well, it's been a long time since I've seen an usher in a movie theater. I think it's mostly economics, combined with the rise of the multi-plex. In the old days of single-screen theaters, you of course only had 1 movie showing at a time, and it only took 2-4 ushers to cover most theaters (a few more in the really big theaters, and maybe only 1, who might also be the theater manager, in the smallest places). Now theaters have 8 or more screens, all of which are showing movies at the same time. And to cover that, they'd need a couple of ushers for each screen, so instead of needing 2-4 ushers at a time, they'd need 16+. And since the old theaters usually only had matinees and really late showings one the weekends, they only need a couple of extra ushers to cover days off, but the multi-plexes often have matinees and midnight showings every day, so they'd have to have double the number of ushers to cover 2 shifts. Add that all up, and whereas the old theaters might have gotten by with employing 4-6 ushers, the multi-plexes would have to hire 36 or more. That's a significantly increased expense. Sure, their revenues are also higher, but I doubt that they're 6-9 times higher, adjusting for inflation, of course.


Wed Jul 16, 2014 11:56 pm
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Post Re: July 08, 2014: "Fuck off, Shitbag"
Some theaters still are managed that way and are vigilantly policed by ushers.

I don't know if people were better mannered in public back then(whenever "then" is), it only seems like people are more rude in public because now you can instantly capture someone being rude on video and upload it online, which you couldn't do 15 years ago.

Both theaters near me have ushers, but i've never seen anyone act out badly enough for them to have to escort anybody out of the theater.


Thu Jul 17, 2014 2:01 am
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Post Re: July 08, 2014: "Fuck off, Shitbag"
ilovemovies wrote:
I actually like Britney Spears. Well, old school Britney. Not so much her more recent stuff.


It's always interesting to see where these forum threads lead. From "Fuck off, Shitbag" to Britney Spears...


Thu Jul 17, 2014 9:44 pm
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Post Re: July 08, 2014: "Fuck off, Shitbag"
Vexer wrote:
Some theaters still are managed that way and are vigilantly policed by ushers.

I don't know if people were better mannered in public back then(whenever "then" is), it only seems like people are more rude in public because now you can instantly capture someone being rude on video and upload it online, which you couldn't do 15 years ago.


Well, in my case, when talking about going to movies when I was a kid, we're talking more like 35-50 years ago than 15 years ago.

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Both theaters near me have ushers, but i've never seen anyone act out badly enough for them to have to escort anybody out of the theater.


Lucky for you. And yeah, as I said, I think if people realize that theater personnel are watching how they act, they are almost certainly going to be less likely to misbehave.


Sat Jul 19, 2014 3:10 am
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Post Re: July 08, 2014: "Fuck off, Shitbag"
dps wrote:
Vexer wrote:
Some theaters still are managed that way and are vigilantly policed by ushers.

I don't know if people were better mannered in public back then(whenever "then" is), it only seems like people are more rude in public because now you can instantly capture someone being rude on video and upload it online, which you couldn't do 15 years ago.


Well, in my case, when talking about going to movies when I was a kid, we're talking more like 35-50 years ago than 15 years ago.

Quote:
Both theaters near me have ushers, but i've never seen anyone act out badly enough for them to have to escort anybody out of the theater.


Lucky for you. And yeah, as I said, I think if people realize that theater personnel are watching how they act, they are almost certainly going to be less likely to misbehave.
My point still stands, way back then you couldn't just record someone being rude and upload it online.


Sat Jul 19, 2014 4:31 am
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Post Re: July 08, 2014: "Fuck off, Shitbag"
I would have pulled a Hank Moody - grabbed his phone and threw it.

Seriously.


Sat Jul 19, 2014 12:33 pm
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Post Re: July 08, 2014: "Fuck off, Shitbag"
Vexer wrote:
dps wrote:
Vexer wrote:
Some theaters still are managed that way and are vigilantly policed by ushers.

I don't know if people were better mannered in public back then(whenever "then" is), it only seems like people are more rude in public because now you can instantly capture someone being rude on video and upload it online, which you couldn't do 15 years ago.


Well, in my case, when talking about going to movies when I was a kid, we're talking more like 35-50 years ago than 15 years ago.

Quote:
Both theaters near me have ushers, but i've never seen anyone act out badly enough for them to have to escort anybody out of the theater.


Lucky for you. And yeah, as I said, I think if people realize that theater personnel are watching how they act, they are almost certainly going to be less likely to misbehave.
My point still stands, way back then you couldn't just record someone being rude and upload it online.


I don't see the relevance of your point, then. I'm talking about my personal observations of how people behave (or misbehave) in theaters, not about things I've seen on the net.


Sat Jul 19, 2014 12:53 pm
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