Discussion of movies and ReelThoughts topics

It is currently Tue Nov 25, 2014 8:58 pm




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 155 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6 ... 8  Next
September 19, 2011: "George Lucas: Childhood Rapist?" 
Author Message
Post Re: September 19, 2011: "George Lucas: Childhood Rapist?"
James Berardinelli wrote:
Sexual Chocolate wrote:
Here's where you're a bit off base, JB:

Star Wars doesn't entirely belong to Lucas anymore, no matter how much he thinks it does. The same can be said for any work of art. Once it enters the public consciousness, a part of it belongs to the public for their own interpretation and appreciation.


I think it's bullshit to say that when something gets put out there, it belongs to everyone. There wouldn't be copyright laws if that was the case. The interpretation and reaction to a piece of art (or, in this case, pop culture - I do not view SW as being "art") are individualist things but the property itself belongs to Lucas. He is free to change it as he sees fit and doesn't need the approval (or lack thereof) of anyone to do so.


I agree with James on the legal level, of course. However, I don't know if the OP meant this literally. Musicians are probably quite happy when their songs are sung by buskers. In that sense, they do belong to everybody. Even songs which are not busked but have been heard by just about everyone have a different status. I remember once, about 20 years ago, when I was visiting a friend and we were making dough for pasta in the kitchen. Pink Floyd's "Shine on You Crazy Diamond" was playing loudly on a really expensive stereo system. When the chimney sweep came in to give us his bill, he said that it's always nice to hear good music like that. Another example: In his 1985 tour programme, Leonard Cohen mentions that he sold the rights to "Suzanne" because he was young and needed the money. But: "In some sense, it is appropriate that I no longer own the song. Just last week I heard some people singing it in a boat on the Caspian sea."


Tue Sep 20, 2011 2:23 pm
Director
User avatar

Joined: Sun Jun 20, 2010 4:04 pm
Posts: 1768
Location: New Hampshire
Post Re: September 19, 2011: "George Lucas: Childhood Rapist?"
One final Star Wars and film-related thought:

I have the original cuts of the film on DVD (the rough Laserdisc transfers), and truthfully, I like them better that way. After seeing a few films in high-def Blu-Ray, I can honestly say that I have no real desire to see any film in Blu-Ray, including Star Wars. I think the Blu-Ray format looks like shit.

Film stock by its very nature has a bit of grain in it; I've always liked a film with a bit of grain, as it adds a touch of realism to what's on the screen. High-def effectively removes all the grain and makes the humans on screen look like plastic dolls. Everything is too perfect. High-def, so far as I'm concerned, is good for animation and possibly sports telecasts, but it sucks for films...and I plan on holding off on buying a Blu-Ray player for as long as humanly possible.

_________________
Death is pretty final
I'm collecting vinyl
I'm gonna DJ at the end of the world.


Tue Sep 20, 2011 2:24 pm
Profile
Post Re: September 19, 2011: "George Lucas: Childhood Rapist?"
Dragonbeard wrote:

Was it any better when Indy shot the swordsman?


No, but it was funnier. :-)

Is it true that this was improvised, the original script calling for a big fat but Ford had diarrhea so pulled the fast shot?


Tue Sep 20, 2011 2:25 pm
Post Re: September 19, 2011: "George Lucas: Childhood Rapist?"
Sexual Chocolate wrote:
One final Star Wars and film-related thought:

I have the original cuts of the film on DVD (the rough Laserdisc transfers), and truthfully, I like them better that way. After seeing a few films in high-def Blu-Ray, I can honestly say that I have no real desire to see any film in Blu-Ray, including Star Wars. I think the Blu-Ray format looks like shit.

Film stock by its very nature has a bit of grain in it; I've always liked a film with a bit of grain, as it adds a touch of realism to what's on the screen. High-def effectively removes all the grain and makes the humans on screen look like plastic dolls. Everything is too perfect. High-def, so far as I'm concerned, is good for animation and possibly sports telecasts, but it sucks for films...and I plan on holding off on buying a Blu-Ray player for as long as humanly possible.

Agreed, CGI might look slightly better on Blu-Ray, but the trade-off is that humans end up looking like mannequins, so i'll stick with DVD. As for Star Wars, I honestly could not care less about any of the "changes" if I tried, I never thought the Star Wars films were all that amazing, so it dosen't matter to me who shot first and whatnot.


Tue Sep 20, 2011 3:00 pm
Post Re: September 19, 2011: "George Lucas: Childhood Rapist?"
Sexual Chocolate wrote:
One final Star Wars and film-related thought:

I have the original cuts of the film on DVD (the rough Laserdisc transfers), and truthfully, I like them better that way. After seeing a few films in high-def Blu-Ray, I can honestly say that I have no real desire to see any film in Blu-Ray, including Star Wars. I think the Blu-Ray format looks like shit.

Film stock by its very nature has a bit of grain in it; I've always liked a film with a bit of grain, as it adds a touch of realism to what's on the screen. High-def effectively removes all the grain and makes the humans on screen look like plastic dolls. Everything is too perfect. High-def, so far as I'm concerned, is good for animation and possibly sports telecasts, but it sucks for films...and I plan on holding off on buying a Blu-Ray player for as long as humanly possible.


There are plenty of films on blu-ray that retain their natural grain. Aliens, Close Encounters, LOTR, Back to the Future, etc. I think you're just generalizing here. It all depends on the film and how the studio remasters it. The studios learned their lesson after the "Predator: Ultimate Hunter Edition" debacle. Blu-ray by nature does not remove all the grain.


Tue Sep 20, 2011 3:18 pm
Post Re: September 19, 2011: "George Lucas: Childhood Rapist?"
James Berardinelli wrote:
Sexual Chocolate wrote:
Here's where you're a bit off base, JB:

Star Wars doesn't entirely belong to Lucas anymore, no matter how much he thinks it does. The same can be said for any work of art. Once it enters the public consciousness, a part of it belongs to the public for their own interpretation and appreciation.


I think it's bullshit to say that when something gets put out there, it belongs to everyone. There wouldn't be copyright laws if that was the case. The interpretation and reaction to a piece of art (or, in this case, pop culture - I do not view SW as being "art") are individualist things but the property itself belongs to Lucas. He is free to change it as he sees fit and doesn't need the approval (or lack thereof) of anyone to do so.

I disagree with you again on this topic of Lucas and Star Wars, much like I did and still do with your (IMO) vast overrating of the prequel films. I'm not going to say that Lucas raped my childhood because quite frankly, I never loved Star Wars to the point of obsession.

You're right in that Lucas does have ownership over the intellectual property. However, in terms of the obligation that the creator of a work has towards those in the public who've provided support to that creator, Lucas has an obligation to at least offer the original versions of those films if he's going to continue fucking with them. Those films got entered into the registry of the Library of Congress, never mind Lucas' own condemnation of the changing of original works back when Ted Turner was trying to colorize classic films.

My own theory on why Lucas is making the changes is simple: he's trying to make the OT films fit his vision, the one that he got to spew in the PT films. The more he changes them, the more future generations will (mistakenly) think that ALL of the films were made in his vision even though of course they weren't. This is not only dishonest, but petty narcissism at work, and in a way it's really just sad.


Tue Sep 20, 2011 3:56 pm
Gaffer

Joined: Tue May 31, 2011 6:35 pm
Posts: 26
Post Re: September 19, 2011: "George Lucas: Childhood Rapist?"
What is it with the grain lovers?

I that the stuff. If there are blue ray players that magically make it disappear, sign me up. Same stupid thing as Americans complaining that any framerate or interpolation higher than 24 "looks like a soap opera" and preferring the 24 fps stuttering over something more realistic.

About the Greedo thing: I was looking for this when watching the blue ray disk over the weekend, and what happened was basically an explosion. It was impossible to tell who shot first, you could barely tell that there was any shooting involved. The whole shot was maybe half a second.

I thought that Darth Vader screaming "no" in Jedi made sense, BTW.

But maybe all of this is because I've only seen the old movies about once a decade so I'm not too invested in their previous state.


Tue Sep 20, 2011 5:52 pm
Profile
Post Re: September 19, 2011: "George Lucas: Childhood Rapist?"
To the best of my knowledge, this is the first time Star Wars has been released on Blu-Ray. It was released twice on DVD, and the second release included the original versions as a bonus--a significantly improved package for the holdout fans, which is a widespread practice on DVD.

I'm not sure why this makes Lucas exceptionally greedy among filmmakers, especially considering that he's not resorting to underhanded means to make his money and has given a significant amount of it to charity.


Tue Sep 20, 2011 7:23 pm
Post Re: September 19, 2011: "George Lucas: Childhood Rapist?"
Only film stock above a certain speed has 'noticeable' grain and BluRay doesn't cover it up, on the contrary, it shows it far more clearly. It's more likely that the grain has been removed during post production of the movie.


Tue Sep 20, 2011 7:57 pm
Post Re: September 19, 2011: "George Lucas: Childhood Rapist?"
5wivesofbergman wrote:
Dragonbeard wrote:

Was it any better when Indy shot the swordsman?


No, but it was funnier. :-)

Is it true that this was improvised, the original script calling for a big fat but Ford had diarrhea so pulled the fast shot?


Ya, it was supposed to be a long, drawn out battle, but heat and exhaustion were killing Ford, so he basically just said to Speilberg, "Look, Indy always carries this gun, why doesn't he just use it." And one of the most famous scenes in the franchise was born.


Tue Sep 20, 2011 11:33 pm
Post Re: September 19, 2011: "George Lucas: Childhood Rapist?"
Ken wrote:
To the best of my knowledge, this is the first time Star Wars has been released on Blu-Ray. It was released twice on DVD, and the second release included the original versions as a bonus--a significantly improved package for the holdout fans, which is a widespread practice on DVD..


There was a third DVD release in 2008, in which Lucas packaged the two-disc Limited Editions of each film together, creating a six-disc original trilogy boxset; he packaged the prequels together in a boxset for the first time as well.


Tue Sep 20, 2011 11:41 pm
Post Re: September 19, 2011: "George Lucas: Childhood Rapist?"
Still not quite sure how that signifies greed. You can get five Coen Bros. movies together in a box, plus the sundry standalone releases and special editions.


Wed Sep 21, 2011 1:21 am
Post Re: September 19, 2011: "George Lucas: Childhood Rapist?"
Just went back and watched 'Sith' and then 'New Hope' back to back. Some thoughts:

- I would happily watch all 6 movies in BluRay, once they come down in price.

- 'Sith' is a fantastic movie, as good as was in the cinema.

- All the remastering/re-dubbing the world doesn't cover up the obvious continuity errors between the two trilogies. It will upset purists to hear it but I would welcome the original trilogy being remade entirely, especially now that the canon has matured and become more rich with back story.

The last point is NOT an attempt to troll but rather an honest opinion. If we're to believe the man, Lucas made the original as something he didn't expect to become anything. This wasn't Peter Jackson making LOTR or the bunch of chimps who helmed the Harry Potter movies, it was a young nerd with a thrown together story.

In the 34 years since it's release, Star Wars has become something huge. Not just commercially and culturally but the canon itself is now as detailed if not more so than Tolkien's middle earth. In the hands of a competent director and decent writers, all six movies could be remade and a far better job done with them.

No there wouldn't be a point, but who needs one?


Wed Sep 21, 2011 3:00 am
Gaffer

Joined: Tue May 31, 2011 6:35 pm
Posts: 26
Post Re: September 19, 2011: "George Lucas: Childhood Rapist?"
Dragonbeard wrote:
- All the remastering/re-dubbing the world doesn't cover up the obvious continuity errors between the two trilogies. It will upset purists to hear it but I would welcome the original trilogy being remade entirely, especially now that the canon has matured and become more rich with back story.

What would be the point? There is nothing wrong with those movies that reshooting will fix, save for minor details such as some problematic shots here and there (I couldn't believe how fuzzy some of the Tatooine shots of the droids in ANH are).

The one that needs this treatment far more than any of the others is The Phantom Menace. Anakin is way too young to be able to do what he does in that movie, they should make him 15 or something. And get rid of the Jar Jar Binks stumbling around.

But going back to tinker with very successful movies is a waste of time and money. Make some new ones! I would love to see the third trilogy that Lucas has alluded to in the past. And if he doesn't want to make those himself, let someone else do it. If there is one thing I realized as I was watching those six movies over the course of four days, it's that we need more of this: movies that imagine a world that is not limited by today's reality.


Wed Sep 21, 2011 4:12 am
Profile
Post Re: September 19, 2011: "George Lucas: Childhood Rapist?"
iljitsch wrote:
Dragonbeard wrote:
- All the remastering/re-dubbing the world doesn't cover up the obvious continuity errors between the two trilogies. It will upset purists to hear it but I would welcome the original trilogy being remade entirely, especially now that the canon has matured and become more rich with back story.

What would be the point? There is nothing wrong with those movies that reshooting will fix, save for minor details such as some problematic shots here and there (I couldn't believe how fuzzy some of the Tatooine shots of the droids in ANH are).

The one that needs this treatment far more than any of the others is The Phantom Menace. Anakin is way too young to be able to do what he does in that movie, they should make him 15 or something. And get rid of the Jar Jar Binks stumbling around.

But going back to tinker with very successful movies is a waste of time and money. Make some new ones! I would love to see the third trilogy that Lucas has alluded to in the past. And if he doesn't want to make those himself, let someone else do it. If there is one thing I realized as I was watching those six movies over the course of four days, it's that we need more of this: movies that imagine a world that is not limited by today's reality.


Like I said, there is no point but why bother with one? I just mean the movies would be better if they were made again today. Besides, I guess if it's okay to remake everything else (yes, still on the whole Fincher/Millennium thing) then why not Star Wars?


Wed Sep 21, 2011 6:34 am
Gaffer

Joined: Fri Jul 15, 2011 7:35 am
Posts: 9
Post Re: September 19, 2011: "George Lucas: Childhood Rapist?"
Ken wrote:
Still not quite sure how that signifies greed.

Personally, I see George's greed in the constant sub-par releases of these very beloved films. He spends as little money as possible on restoration before releasing them to fans. Even fans of whatever George's current "vision" is get shafted when it comes to the quality of these discs.

The 2004 DVDs messed up the lightsabres to the point where Vader's sabre was pink instead of red, Luke's sabre was green instead of blue, garbage mattes were visible around spaceships, surround channels were reversed, and an iconic moment in John Williams' score was drowned out by sound effects. Lucasfilm responded by saying that these were "deliberate creative decisions" and not mistakes.

The 2006 DVDs of the theatrical cuts were a 1993, non-anamorphic laserdisc master. This was released to generate the greatest amount of profit possible with the least amount of money/effort put into the product itself.

Now, the 2011 Blu-rays have fixed a few of the issues that fans complained the most loudly about, but left others the way they were. For example, Luke's green lightsabre has been switched back to blue for the first shot of the scene, and then reverts back to the "creative decision" green colour. Vader's pink lightsabre is also still there half of the time. Those issues aside, the new Blus look terrible by 2011 standards because they used the 1080p 2004 masters to create them instead of making a new 4K scan. If this was Weekend at Bernie's, I wouldn't care, but it's Star Wars! In Ep.VI, there's a 20 minute chunk of the film that goes out of focus (a problem on the 2004 master). It looks TERRIBLE.

To make matters worse, the new changes create new continuity errors because they weren't thought through. New rocks were added for R2-D2 to hide behind in Ep. IV (how did he fit in there?) and in the next shot, the new rocks have disappeared. The door to Jabba's palace was re-created to look huge on the outside, but on the inside, it's as small as it used to be.


Wed Sep 21, 2011 1:53 pm
Profile
Post Re: September 19, 2011: "George Lucas: Childhood Rapist?"
Has anyone heard that the actor who played Darth Vader has never received any residual payments for Return of the Jedi? Why? The studio claims that Return of the Jedi has never seen a profit! Hollywood accounting at its best (worst). Someone really needs to have a look at the studios' books. People have gone to jail for less.

http://www.slashfilm.com/lucasfilm-tells-darth-vader-that-return-of-the-jedi-hasnt-made-a-profit/

iljitsch wrote:
What's that thing about Indiana Jones? I hadn't heard anything about changes to those movies before.


I don't think anyone mentioned changes to Indiana Jones. KRoss joked about Lucas and Spielberg raping Indiana Jones. That was a reference to a South Park episode that likened the "quality" of Crystal Skull to Spielberg and Lucas raping Indiana Jones. Literally raping.

ck100 wrote:
Did you guys hear about Spielberg showing recent regret for the changes he made to "E.T." back in 2002? He says he feels he's robbing "E.T" fans of their memories and experiences of the original version by making changes to it.

Spielberg has also said when "Raiders of the Lost Ark" and "E.T." hit blu-ray next year they will be the original cuts only.


This is interesting. Do you have a link? I'm not doubting you, but I'd like to read more.


Wed Sep 21, 2011 2:55 pm
Director

Joined: Wed Mar 04, 2009 7:44 pm
Posts: 1489
Post Re: September 19, 2011: "George Lucas: Childhood Rapist?"
Quote:
Steven Spielberg recently appeared at a LA screening of "Raiders of the Lost Ark," which was created from the same print that he will use to ultimately create a Blu-ray release.

The director spoke about using original prints, switching topics to how back in 2002 he regrettably digitally replaced guns with walkie-talkies in "E.T." He said that the Blu-ray release of the film will undo all that.

"For myself, I tried [changing a film] once and lived to regret it," said Spielberg. "Not because of fan outrage, but because I was disappointed in myself. I got overly sensitive to [some of the reaction] to 'ET,' and I thought if technology evolved, [I might go in and change some things]. It was OK for a while, but I realized what I had done was I had robbed people who loved 'ET' of their memories of 'ET.' If I put just one cut of 'ET' on Blu-ray and it was the 1982, would anyone object to that? (The crowd yells 'NO!' in unison.) OK, so be it. (Huge applause from the audience)"

Spielberg went on to say that some of the changes made for the 2003 "Raiders of the Lost Ark" DVD will also likely be undone for the Blu-ray release.

Read more: http://www.worstpreviews.com/headline.p ... z1YcEutpdk


http://www.worstpreviews.com/headline.php?id=22866


Wed Sep 21, 2011 3:10 pm
Profile
Director

Joined: Wed Mar 04, 2009 7:44 pm
Posts: 1489
Post Re: September 19, 2011: "George Lucas: Childhood Rapist?"
Speaking at a screening of Raiders in downtown Los Angeles for its 30th Anniversary, All Things Fangirl reports (via Slashfilm) that Spielberg was asked about the recent reports that Lucas had made even more changes to his Star Wars movies for their upcoming Blu-ray release. While Spielberg acknowledged the changes he made to E.T. for the extended, 20th Anniversary version released in 2002 (changes that included replacing the police's guns with walkie-talkies), he also admitted that he "regretted that."

Quote:
Let me put it this way. George does what he does cause there is only one George Lucas and thank god for that. He's the greatest person I've ever worked with as a filmmaker and collaborator, he is a conceptual genius, he puts together these amazing stories and he is great at what he does. And my feeling is he can do whatever he wants with his movies because those are his movies. We wouldn't have been raised with Star Wars or Indiana Jones had it not been for George, so what he does with his films is great.

Speaking for myself, you know, I tried this once and I lived to regret it. Not because of fan outrage, but simply because I was disappointed in myself. I was overly sensitive to some of the criticism E.T. got from parent groups when it was first released in '82 having to do with Eliot saying "Penis Breath" or the guns...and then there were certain brilliant, but rough around the edges close ups of ET that I always felt, if technology ever evolves to the point where I can do some facial enhancement for E.T., I'd like to. So I did an E.T. pass for like the third release of the movie and it was okay for a while, but then I realized that what I had done was I had robbed the people who loved E.T. of their memories of E.T. And I regretted that. (massive applause) And the only contrition that I could possibly do because I felt bad about that was, the only contrition that I really performed was when E.T. came out on DVD for the first time, I asked Universal, I didn't ask Universal, I said you're gonna do this, when you release this on DVD you have to come out for the same price of one DVD, you have to put two movies in the box and one movie will be the 1982 version and the other will be the digitally enhanced version. I'd like to ask you this, let's do a little poll here, cause I know we're coming out with the Blu-Ray of E.T., if I just came out with one E.T. on Blu-Ray, [the] 1982 [version], would anyone object to that? (loud NO from the audience). Okay then, so be it. (huge applause)


http://www.reelz.com/movie-news/11794/s ... y-release/


Wed Sep 21, 2011 3:24 pm
Profile
Post Re: September 19, 2011: "George Lucas: Childhood Rapist?"
ed_metal_head wrote:
Has anyone heard that the actor who played Darth Vader has never received any residual payments for Return of the Jedi? Why? The studio claims that Return of the Jedi has never seen a profit! Hollywood accounting at its best (worst). Someone really needs to have a look at the studios' books. People have gone to jail for less.

http://www.slashfilm.com/lucasfilm-tells-darth-vader-that-return-of-the-jedi-hasnt-made-a-profit/

The sad thing is that this happens all the time and it's usually pretty immaculate from a legal standpoint--not just in Hollywood, but in the entire entertainment industry, from the upper echelon to the lower. Number crunchers do not like to make concessions on the behalf of their employers.

Just look at Jerry Siegel and Joe Shuster. They sold Superman for a paycheck and a promise of regular work. Imagine coming up with Mickey Mouse or James Bond and getting a check for it while the new corporate owner goes on to rake in money hand over fist.


Wed Sep 21, 2011 4:11 pm
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 155 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6 ... 8  Next


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group.
Designed by Vjacheslav Trushkin for Free Forum/DivisionCore.
Translated by Xaphos © 2007, 2008, 2009 phpBB.fr