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May 31, 2011: "They Just Don't Get It" 
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Post Re: May 31, 2011: "They Just Don't Get It"
Dragonbeard wrote:
60" is 5' but let's not quibble :P

My point still stands; how many people own a television of this size? Certainly NOBODY I've ever known has owned a 10' television and I'm certain I've never seen one for sale. Not that there'd be much point, the HD picture would look shocking, unless you were some distance away.

I've often attempted to visualise a screen at home as being the same as a cinema screen but the dimensions aren't quite right.


72" is the defacto largest size most stores will carry in stock. 60" is very prevalent, but the best price points currently are the 47" screens.

I have seen plenty of people with the 60"+ screens, and as for upwards of 10' screens, if you have the room, and you need alot of it, you can get a very good screen and projector for under $1000. I could do something like this as a theater in my basement, but I dont have enough headroom for it practically, and also, its a basement, so....


Thu Jun 02, 2011 9:40 pm
Post Re: May 31, 2011: "They Just Don't Get It"
MrGuinness wrote:
Dragonbeard wrote:
60" is 5' but let's not quibble :P

My point still stands; how many people own a television of this size? Certainly NOBODY I've ever known has owned a 10' television and I'm certain I've never seen one for sale. Not that there'd be much point, the HD picture would look shocking, unless you were some distance away.

I've often attempted to visualise a screen at home as being the same as a cinema screen but the dimensions aren't quite right.


72" is the defacto largest size most stores will carry in stock. 60" is very prevalent, but the best price points currently are the 47" screens.

I have seen plenty of people with the 60"+ screens, and as for upwards of 10' screens, if you have the room, and you need alot of it, you can get a very good screen and projector for under $1000. I could do something like this as a theater in my basement, but I dont have enough headroom for it practically, and also, its a basement, so....


I have a 10' screen (120 inches) combined with 1080p projection and it beats any local cinema for several reasos:

We choose when to start the movie
We choose what movie to see
It's brighter than most local theaters
We are am not subjected to disgusting popcorn and nachos
We have no issues with texting or talking
The sound system is deep, powerful and very detailed
The seating is great
We serve wine and other nice drinks and foods - we even have dinner while watching the movie
It takes about 30 seconds to get here
Admission is free
There are nightly shows
Tonight we have the premiere of "Spirit of the Beehive"
Tomorrow we have another premiere "Late Spring" from Yasujiro Ozu
On Saturday we are going to india with the "World of Apu"
Sunday is a special treat as we will be reshowing "The Dark Knight"
On Monday we will be showing the BluRay of "Taxi Driver"

I used to drive for 30 minutes, pay $10 and leave frustrated - no more
Rob


Thu Jun 02, 2011 9:57 pm
Post Re: May 31, 2011: "They Just Don't Get It"
Robert Holloway wrote:
I have a 10' screen (120 inches) combined with 1080p projection and it beats any local cinema for several reasons:

We choose when to start the movie
We choose what movie to see
It's brighter than most local theaters
We are am not subjected to disgusting popcorn and nachos
We have no issues with texting or talking
The sound system is deep, powerful and very detailed
The seating is great
We serve wine and other nice drinks and foods - we even have dinner while watching the movie
It takes about 30 seconds to get here
Admission is free
There are nightly shows
Tonight we have the premiere of "Spirit of the Beehive"
Tomorrow we have another premiere "Late Spring" from Yasujiro Ozu
On Saturday we are going to india with the "World of Apu"
Sunday is a special treat as we will be reshowing "The Dark Knight"
On Monday we will be showing the BluRay of "Taxi Driver"

I used to drive for 30 minutes, pay $10 and leave frustrated - no more
Rob

Call me envious of your home theater setup, Rob. Seriously, I hate you so much right now, as I watch films on my 20" monitor. :cry:


Thu Jun 02, 2011 11:17 pm
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Post Re: May 31, 2011: "They Just Don't Get It"
Dragonbeard wrote:
60" is 5' but let's not quibble :P

My point still stands; how many people own a television of this size? Certainly NOBODY I've ever known has owned a 10' television and I'm certain I've never seen one for sale. Not that there'd be much point, the HD picture would look shocking, unless you were some distance away.


Until four years ago, I owned a >60" TV but when I moved into my current house, I had to give it up. My new basement isn't large enough. So now I'm down to 55". I know a lot of people with similar sized sets, so they're 5" short of five feet.

When you're talking about sizes larger than five or six feet, you're talking front-screen projectors. There's a wide range in prices for these. From what I can remember last time I looked into them, a fairly decent one can be had for around $1000, with excellent quality for two or three times that. Rob certainly knows the market better than I do. A good quality screen is in the $750 to $1200 range. So projector+screen is in the same range as a good 55" HDTV, and it can give you eight to ten feet easily. The problem with front screen projectors is that they need space because you can't sit three feet from the screen and hope to get a good experience and you need control of the light in the room. (Essentially, you need a dedicated home theater room, not a living room/family room that doubles as one.)

I'm aware not everyone can afford a top-of-the-line home theater with a 1080p front-projector and a gorgeous 12-foot screen with three plush recliners set 15 feet from the screen. But it's not as expensive as you might think. And there's a strong argument that can be made that a nice 42-inch 1080p LCD HDTV with a three-speaker setup is still more than adequate to give a quality home entertainment system. Hell, people are watching some movies on their iPads. And, for some modest dramas and indies, it's hard to argue that's a bad way to go.


Thu Jun 02, 2011 11:46 pm
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Post Re: May 31, 2011: "They Just Don't Get It"
James Berardinelli wrote:
Dragonbeard wrote:
60" is 5' but let's not quibble :P

My point still stands; how many people own a television of this size? Certainly NOBODY I've ever known has owned a 10' television and I'm certain I've never seen one for sale. Not that there'd be much point, the HD picture would look shocking, unless you were some distance away.


Until four years ago, I owned a >60" TV but when I moved into my current house, I had to give it up. My new basement isn't large enough. So now I'm down to 55". I know a lot of people with similar sized sets, so they're 5" short of five feet.

When you're talking about sizes larger than five or six feet, you're talking front-screen projectors. There's a wide range in prices for these. From what I can remember last time I looked into them, a fairly decent one can be had for around $1000, with excellent quality for two or three times that. Rob certainly knows the market better than I do. A good quality screen is in the $750 to $1200 range. So projector+screen is in the same range as a good 55" HDTV, and it can give you eight to ten feet easily. The problem with front screen projectors is that they need space because you can't sit three feet from the screen and hope to get a good experience and you need control of the light in the room. (Essentially, you need a dedicated home theater room, not a living room/family room that doubles as one.)

I'm aware not everyone can afford a top-of-the-line home theater with a 1080p front-projector and a gorgeous 12-foot screen with three plush recliners set 15 feet from the screen. But it's not as expensive as you might think. And there's a strong argument that can be made that a nice 42-inch 1080p LCD HDTV with a three-speaker setup is still more than adequate to give a quality home entertainment system. Hell, people are watching some movies on their iPads. And, for some modest dramas and indies, it's hard to argue that's a bad way to go.


James

Everything you say here is 100% true
I paid $36,000 for my first CRT projector combined with Faroudja line doubler in the early 1990's
It was a piece of crap compared with modern projectors. i donated it to my kids school

An awesome 8-10 foot screen and projector will easily come in at the same price as a 55-65" flat screen. We have two other flat screens in the house and they are just awful in comparison with projection.

I took this photo to illustrate a 40" flat screen 12 feet in front of a 120" screen. the picture is taken from the chefs table in my kitchen where i had the wall knocked out to make it one huge space. I love cooking to a movie!

Image

The challenge as James mentions is that a reasonable viewing distance is 1.5-2 times the width of your screen. I sit 16 feet from my screen. Anything closer than 12 is overwhelming.

Here is a thought. If you are short of cash simply paint your wall white! Trust me, it's not that bad. We have tried it and it's not at all bad.

The other issue is light. I made light proof drapes ($30 each) that hang off hooks over the windows to enable me to watch movies during the day.

Pedro came over last year but had to leave before we watched a movie. Patrick was en route and cancelled at the last moment. if you're in the Bay Area you're welcome!

Rob

PS - I have an iPad on the chefs table for none serious viewing :-)


Fri Jun 03, 2011 12:03 am
Post Re: May 31, 2011: "They Just Don't Get It"
We odn't have a flat-screen in my house, all our TVs are 24-inch SDTV models, it's not necessarily that we can't afford those big-ass flat-screens, we just have NO place to put them. My mom did buy a smaller HDTV once, but for whatever reason it wouldn't give out a signal, so she took it back, my parents don't really care much about picture or sound quality(nor do I) so were just fine not having a home theater, it's WAAYYYYY too damned expensive anyways, there's no way in hell my parents are gonna pay hundreds of dollars just for a better picture and sound(I myself don't have that kind of money right now), they don't need it since they rarely ever go to theaters anyways(they don't keep up with all the current films much, the only film my parents will likely see in theaters this year will be Death Hallows Part 2 since they love the HP series) As for me, like I said before i've never had a bad experience in any of the showings i've been to so far, so i've got no real inclination to ever have a home theater system.


Fri Jun 03, 2011 1:01 am
Post Re: May 31, 2011: "They Just Don't Get It"
Re. iPad viewing: I don't think I'd be able to stomach it as anything more than a novelty experience, or "keeping half an ear on it while I cook" experience.

And may whatever god you believe in help you if you try to get me to watch something that's actually worth my full attention on a screen that's small enough to be held in one hand.


Fri Jun 03, 2011 3:09 am
Post Re: May 31, 2011: "They Just Don't Get It"
Robert Holloway wrote:

Patrick was en route and cancelled at the last moment. if you're in the Bay Area you're welcome!


NOT BY CHOICE! Major failed me.


Fri Jun 03, 2011 6:11 am
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Post Re: May 31, 2011: "They Just Don't Get It"
Rob,

Clear out a room 'cause I'm moving in. Seriously.

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Fri Jun 03, 2011 7:53 am
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Post Re: May 31, 2011: "They Just Don't Get It"
Just bought these for a client and they were very happy with the purchase...

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B004438PLK - Projector

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000Q87LM6 - Screen

The screen is not top of the line but there were no complaints, and the projector has been a quality product for a few years now.

total, $1125

Add on a really good sound system, which can be had for less than $400 and you've got a 10' home theater setup for right around $1500

Oh yeah, make them throw in a blu-ray player too... or i'll give you my HD-DVD player... thanks for that one James! :roll:


Fri Jun 03, 2011 8:31 am
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Joined: Fri Jun 03, 2011 10:32 am
Posts: 3
Post Re: May 31, 2011: "They Just Don't Get It"
Where I currently live there is no cinema within easy reach. A local theatre regularly shows films, but this still involves a 27-mile drive and a ferry journey. When I first moved here from the city the thing I missed most was my regular trips to the cinema, and on the very rare occasions (three times in the last four years) when I do get to visit a cinema it feels like a real treat.

There are currently plans in our area to build a purpose-built cinema, but I can't think for the life of me why or when I would use it. Firstly, there is the travelling time (and the cost of fuel and ferry fares) to think of. Then there is the cost of a ticket (the last time my wife and I visited the cinema it cost the best part of £20 for the tickets alone), not to mention finding childcare. Add in the relative comfort of the auditorium, the cost of snacks and drinks and the behaviour of other patrons - that had better be one hell of a film I'm getting to see!

In the comfort of my own home I can watch a Blu-ray on my HDTV, within a few weeks of it's theatrical release, I can sit on a comfy couch, put my feet up, drink a bottle of beer and be safe in the knowledge that I'll be (mostly) uninterrupted or inconvenienced, and pay a fraction of the cost for the film. If I don't want to wait for a Blu-ray through the post I can stream from Lovefilm, Blinkbox or the PS Store.

On the subject of film rentals, this is something that really bugs me. With my Lovefilm package I can get four Blu-rays through the post for less than £7. From a local shop I can rent a Blu-ray for £2. So why on Earth does it cost £3.49 to rent a film online (£4.49 for HD!!)? How can the least labour-intensive method of renting costs so much?


Fri Jun 03, 2011 10:48 am
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Post Re: May 31, 2011: "They Just Don't Get It"
Of course I say all that while I'm sitting on the beach watching Once on my DROID X and am happy as a clam (which, of course I ate last night) :)


Fri Jun 03, 2011 11:34 am
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Joined: Sat Nov 13, 2010 2:17 am
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Post Re: May 31, 2011: "They Just Don't Get It"
I wonder if the next Transformer's movie might be another nail in the overrated 3D coffin. Michael Bay's whirly-cam in 3D? I imagine audiences will be literally vomitting........

Theaters are a major waste of time these days if you're interested in actually watching a movie. Last one I saw was Avatar, prior to that it was King Kong. I almost feel guilty about Avatar as it probably cost my folks almost $150 bucks to take the whole family to a 3D showing.

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Fri Jun 03, 2011 7:24 pm
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Post Re: May 31, 2011: "They Just Don't Get It"
MinnJD wrote:
I wonder if the next Transformer's movie might be another nail in the overrated 3D coffin. Michael Bay's whirly-cam in 3D? I imagine audiences will be literally vomitting........

Theaters are a major waste of time these days if you're interested in actually watching a movie. Last one I saw was Avatar, prior to that it was King Kong. I almost feel guilty about Avatar as it probably cost my folks almost $150 bucks to take the whole family to a 3D showing.

Actually, Bay said that the 3-D camera was too restrictive for him to be able to do those whirly-cam shots, so you don't have to worry about that. BTW I don't know many people who take they're entire family to see a film(By entire family, do you mean just the nuclear family or are you counting cousins and step-siblings as well?) of course that's going to be expensive!


Fri Jun 03, 2011 7:45 pm
Post Re: May 31, 2011: "They Just Don't Get It"
Bushteaser wrote:
Rob,

Clear out a room 'cause I'm moving in. Seriously.



Long trip :-)
Rob


Fri Jun 03, 2011 8:36 pm
Post Re: May 31, 2011: "They Just Don't Get It"
MrGuinness wrote:
Just bought these for a client and they were very happy with the purchase...

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B004438PLK - Projector

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000Q87LM6 - Screen

The screen is not top of the line but there were no complaints, and the projector has been a quality product for a few years now.

total, $1125

Add on a really good sound system, which can be had for less than $400 and you've got a 10' home theater setup for right around $1500

Oh yeah, make them throw in a blu-ray player too... or i'll give you my HD-DVD player... thanks for that one James! :roll:



I'm sorry to burst your bubble - but you cannot get a "really good sound system for $400"
You're going to need 8 speakers and a receiver
You'll do well to get a single decent sub for under $400

Rob


Fri Jun 03, 2011 8:38 pm
Post Re: May 31, 2011: "They Just Don't Get It"
To address the decaying appeal and quality of the movie plex, where I live we have the Alamo drafthouse chain of meal+movie theaters.

http://drafthouse.com/austin

Hopefully these kind of theaters spread, the drafthouses here are hugely successful with just about every screening of every film shown selling out.

Going to the drafthouse is an experience, they do a lot to make going there special (besides having killer sound and image quality, lower ticket prices than big chains, and serving really high quality food).

Here's a couple examples:

They advertise their upcoming events using this format:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vDPd2KxFWDo&feature=related

Their don't talk during the movie bit is always great (and seriously enforced, nobody makes a peep during the movie):
http://www.youtube.com/user/DrafthouseHenri#p/u/28/6Y4QAOxCKO4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SGFJ-I9eSkc

Anyway, I'm just trying to point out that yes, big chains with lousy concessions, noisy patrons, lousy screens are killing the theater going experience, but as they die, hopefully places like this are what replaces them.


Fri Jun 03, 2011 11:49 pm
Post Re: May 31, 2011: "They Just Don't Get It"
My favorite theater in the Bay Area is the same concept

http://www.rialtocinemas.com/index.php?location=cerrito

The problem is that they are increasingly just showing first run movies.

Saw Vertigo here!

They have to survive
Rob


Fri Jun 03, 2011 11:52 pm
Post Re: May 31, 2011: "They Just Don't Get It"
Yeah, the drafthouses are all small theaters with 10 screens or less.

They mostly show first run films, however, they do events all the time for smaller films (a year before the good, the bad, and the weird had it's U.S. release, they had screened it for a couple months).

It's just so much fun going there, that even if you see a less than stellar movie, the experience makes up for it. Me and the wife went to see Hangover 2 last night and had a good time, despite the movie featuring 500% more penis and 200% fewer laughs.


Fri Jun 03, 2011 11:57 pm
Post Re: May 31, 2011: "They Just Don't Get It"
I feel that it's sheer madness to own something larger than 42", simply due to the amount of space it takes up and how far you'd have to sit from it to get a decent picture. 1080 lines can only be displayed so big before you start to defeat the object!

Out of interest, how are the black levels on these projector screens?


Sat Jun 04, 2011 12:01 am
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