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November 24, 2009: "The NEW MOON Gender Gap" 
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Post November 24, 2009: "The NEW MOON Gender Gap"
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Tue Nov 24, 2009 6:29 pm
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Post Re: November 24, 2009: "The NEW MOON Gender Gap"
I think it all comes back to either 'taste' or experience. We've seen the stuff in Twilight before. Done better as well. I mean we saw it so much that an entire show (Buffy the Vampire Slayer) came around and made jokes about it. It seems to me to be all about expectations. Some of us have higher expectations based on prior experience.


Tue Nov 24, 2009 7:04 pm
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Post Re: November 24, 2009: "The NEW MOON Gender Gap"
james, in 6 months the delta will likely be a lot smaller for new moon(maybe under 2)

imdb often has extreme voting patterns during the early stages of a film's release(dark knight was #1 for a while last summer, now its #9) then things start to even out. I wouldn't read too much into this 'gender gap' right now.

I have no doubt that a lot of those 1's new moon is getting are from teenage fanboys of dark knight who never even saw twilight & are upset it got so close to the opening weekend BO record (there are threads under the dark knight & twilight message boards where posters freely admit to doing this. last summer it was pretty obvious when The Godfather - which was ranked #1 - suddenly started getting thousands of 1's that Dark Knight's fans were trying very hard to dethrone it, which they did)

that's funny about Patton though. and interesting that women actually scored transformers higher than men.

came aross a 1.9 delta: Dirty Dancing. 7.7 for women, 5.8 for men
some others:
Pretty Woman 6.5 men, 7.4 women
Dying Young 5.1 men, 6.0 women


Tue Nov 24, 2009 7:15 pm
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Post Re: November 24, 2009: "The NEW MOON Gender Gap"
Funny, as I thought that the gap was closing between purely macho and chick centered movies. It's probably just the decadal zeitgeist, of which Titantic was the last one to pluck women's heart strings.


Tue Nov 24, 2009 7:17 pm
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Post Re: November 24, 2009: "The NEW MOON Gender Gap"
some other big deltas:

Beaches: 5.9 for men, 7.2 for women
Steel Magnolias: 6.5 men, 7.6 women
Waiting to Exhale: 4.6 men, 5.9 women
First Wives Club: 5.3 men, 6.4 women
Bride Wars: 4.7 men, 5.9 women
Divine Secrets of the YaYa Sisterhood: 5.1 men, 6.3 women
Sisterhood of the Traveling Pants 2: 5.7 men, 7.1 women
High School Musical 3: 3.2 men, 5.3 women

Seven Samurai: 8.9 men, 7.3 women
Man Who Shot Liberty Valance: 8.1 men, 6.6 women
Red River: 7.8 men, 5.9 women
Stagecoach: 7.9 men, 6.4 women


Last edited by calvero on Tue Nov 24, 2009 9:29 pm, edited 3 times in total.



Tue Nov 24, 2009 7:24 pm
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Post Re: November 24, 2009: "The NEW MOON Gender Gap"
Most of the 1's that New Moon gets are from people who just think the movie sucks because it is the cool thing to do and don't even bother actually watching and criticizing the movie fairly. IMDB is also way too prone to rate newer movies highly that have gained critical praise. Zombieland was in the top 250 almost instantly after it opened and just recently got notched out of it.


Tue Nov 24, 2009 7:41 pm
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Post Re: November 24, 2009: "The NEW MOON Gender Gap"
Perhaps lending credence to calvero's theory, I noticed that the difference in ratings between men and women over Twilight and its sequel appears to be due entirely to men liking the movie less. Women's ratings have stayed about the same between the two movies, while men's ratings have substantially dropped. On the other hand, the similarities in age-based ratings of New Moon argue against the "teenage fanboy" theory. Male teens under 18 liked the movie as much as or more than older men, and one would hope men over 45 aren't rating it low despite having not seen it because of the Dark Knight factor.

Actually, one of the things that interested me most about Mr. Berardinelli's listings of the deltas is how some of the so-called "macho movies" actually performed better among women than men, and that these movies overall appear to produce less of a gender gap than movies supposedly geared towards women. What do you make of that? Is Transformers: Revenge of the Fallen really a "chick flick"?


Tue Nov 24, 2009 11:20 pm
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Post Re: November 24, 2009: "The NEW MOON Gender Gap"
It has to do with the whole "White Knight (or in this case, moody-but-not-scary vampire) who comes to the rescue of the damsel in distress" that women fantasize about and keep romance novelists in business. Guys just don't want to see that kind of stuff. John Gray was right when he said Woman are from Mars, Man are from Venus, especially when it comes to romance, or whatever Twilight is aspiring to be.


Tue Nov 24, 2009 11:41 pm
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Post Re: November 24, 2009: "The NEW MOON Gender Gap"
My thinking is pretty close to that of the last poster.

This movie is one giant walking Abercrombie & Fitch catalog with all the shirtless guys all over the place. Some people (mostly critics) complained about the whole "excessive buff guys" thing when 300 came out a few years ago, but that's different. Those were Spartans. Badass warriors. They're not all glossed up for posing. They fight.

The whole "woman's fantasy" element is well-noted. A romance featuring buff guys every which way you turn. Far be it for me to complain about this; after all, if women can be exploited for sex appeal, so can men. I'm just noting that it's the perfect storm for a large amount of young female viewers.


Tue Nov 24, 2009 11:51 pm
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Post Re: November 24, 2009: "The NEW MOON Gender Gap"
The female crowd oggle at the males in New Moon, while the males love watching Megan Fox in both Transformers films. Fair game for both and I still condemn both audiences for fall into a lame-brained plot and stupid, uneven action scenes. Knowing that a third film for both franchises are coming out makes me sad for the youth of America. :cry:


Tue Nov 24, 2009 11:56 pm
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Post Re: November 24, 2009: "The NEW MOON Gender Gap"
I don't think it's an accurate gender gap for the population in general. Right now the pre-teens, teens and obsessed women who should know better are voting positively and the guys who were dragged there are attacking it the only way they can. I suspect that if you asked women in general what they think of the film, you would find that most over 25 aren't that interested in it. Having read the novels because I was curious about the first one, I am thoroughly turned off with the series and have no interest to pay money to see this movie. The shirtless posters of the wolf guys are actually pretty sad, and since the guy who plays Jacob isn't even 18, it just seems creepy to have him without his shirt on all the time, at least from what I have seen on the trailer. I truly wonder if a 17 year old actress would have been promoted in the same way for a mainstream film.

I am interested in how they will sell the last movie because while Bella is annoyingly passive in the first three novels, the whole consummation of the relationship (you probably know with who but I won't spoil it), where it fades out to the next morning when she wakes up all bruised and with the bed destroyed, is frankly quite disturbing, especially when the primary audience for this novel is supposed to be pre-teens.


Wed Nov 25, 2009 12:32 am
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Post Re: November 24, 2009: "The NEW MOON Gender Gap"
James,

Your last line made me laugh--about "owing him one." This past year, the Twilight series have been circulating among faculty at the school--yes, they are at times lengthy and you can trim down most of the meat of the book to about 100 pages or so, but they are my "trashy/fun/mind-numbing books." I enjoy them. (As terrible as they are written).

So last year my friend and her husband and my husband and I went to see Twilight. I thought the movie was cheesy and campy and corny--and yet, it was mindless and well--I took it for what it was worth. Entertainment. However, my husband teased me about it--and picked on it's cheesiness. So this year I took a different stand. A few weeks before New Moon came out--my friends and I decided to go.

I figured this was perfect. My husband wouldn't be subjected to a movie that he obviously didn't want to see. We could go as a group--and it would be a fun night out this week. When I mentioned my plans to him--he surprisingly, wanted to go. I even made it so he didn't HAVE to go. And this way--he could spend the night doing what he wanted to be doing. Especially considering he teased me about the first one unmercifully.

In his semi-defense--he loves movies. And will sit through just about any movie, good or bad. (Even if it IS just to make fun of it--thus, he'll pay for almost every movie.) He doesn't care for the whole vampire genre though--however, he does enjoy Werewolf movies.

So, to make a long story short--I may be off the hook about "owing him one"--I gave him a perfect excuse to get out of it--and he didn't take the bait.


Wed Nov 25, 2009 12:36 am
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Post Re: November 24, 2009: "The NEW MOON Gender Gap"
Starearedkid wrote:
In his semi-defense--he loves movies. And will sit through just about any movie, good or bad. (Even if it IS just to make fun of it--thus, he'll pay for almost every movie.)


Hmmm... I wonder if he'd make it through OLD DOGS. There's a movie to test a person's mettle.


Wed Nov 25, 2009 1:05 am
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Post Re: November 24, 2009: "The NEW MOON Gender Gap"
James Berardinelli wrote:
Starearedkid wrote:
In his semi-defense--he loves movies. And will sit through just about any movie, good or bad. (Even if it IS just to make fun of it--thus, he'll pay for almost every movie.)


Hmmm... I wonder if he'd make it through OLD DOGS. There's a movie to test a person's mettle.


Wow, that movie really made an impression on you, huh?


Wed Nov 25, 2009 1:29 am
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Post Re: November 24, 2009: "The NEW MOON Gender Gap"
I'd be very wary about those comparisons, since one of the noticeable things about the IMDB ratings sorted by gender is that the difference between actual numbers of male and female voters is usually huge.
The films with the male-biased delta have closer to the normal IMDB male-to-female votes ratio:
Grindhouse 62,600 male 7,300 female; delta 0.5
Raging Bull 61,000 male 4,300 female; delta 0.8
Patton 25,700 male 2,000 female votes; delta 1.6

The films with the largest delta are ones where the ratio of male-to-female votes is less skewed than normal:
New Moon 11,700 male 7,300 female votes; delta 3.5
Sex and the City 22,100 male 15,500 female; delta 2.2
Twilight 50,900 male 34,100 female; delta 1.4
Mamma Mia 23,800 male 15,500 female; delta 1.2

I don't think we're comparing like with like here.


Wed Nov 25, 2009 6:16 am
Post Re: November 24, 2009: "The NEW MOON Gender Gap"
Men find women's fantasies boring; women find men's fantasies disgusting. There's nothing new here.

I'll probably send the wife to see "New Moon" by herself or with a female friend. I'd rather stay home and surf motorcycle websites.

Good writeup as always JB!


Wed Nov 25, 2009 9:53 am
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Post Re: November 24, 2009: "The NEW MOON Gender Gap"
I get it; I understnd the series noe. I can see the light and then light is showing the love and glory that is Twiligh.. (Buzzer sounds). Like Hell, I'll ever understand that series. I'll watch any crappy Sci-Fi, excuse me, SyFy orginal movie than to see any Twilight or any Transformers film or anything movie or tv show that pre-teens think is "great."


Wed Nov 25, 2009 11:45 am
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Post Re: November 24, 2009: "The NEW MOON Gender Gap"
I would suggest that ratings of 1 and 10 are essentially meaningless; they demonstrate an extreme position on the movie that derives from secondary elements (e.g. "I got dragged to see this, I'm gonna vote 1" or "OMIGOSH!HEWASSOOOOOOCUUUUUUTE!!!!!!1010101010")

It would also tend to remove most of the people who didn't see the movie or who were involved in "rocking the vote".

Not that I'm going to do the analysis. But I'm guessing it would leave the votes of those with "a considered view of what the thinking cinema-goer thought of this movie after carefully considering it against its peers and the cinematic experience in general".

I.e. only the cinema critics. :)

Question: do cinema critics vote on IMDB? And if so, should they get a golden vote?


Wed Nov 25, 2009 12:22 pm
Post Re: November 24, 2009: "The NEW MOON Gender Gap"
These figures are probably more acurate than most people think. The numbers of male to female voters is irrelevant, as an average of 5000 voters or 50000 voters will work out similar. Then there is the fact that many male voters (who haven't seen the movie) have voted '1' but then again all the girls or 'Twi-hards' (who haven't seen the movie) voted '10'. Whatever the end result, it is amazing that a film can polarise the genders in such a way, and I guess in the future, the boys will have to get used to the girls having some hyped up blockbusters of their own.

I have been forced to watch this, ironically for putting the girlfriend through TF2, which I ended up hating more than she did. I thought this was True Blood 'lite' with half the budget, soap opera writing and no likable characters whatsoever. If this is the future of teenage girl cinema, then I dispair for the future of these girls as they mope and sulk endlessly as the bad boy 'dangerous' blokes treat them like shit.


Wed Nov 25, 2009 9:07 pm
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Post Re: November 24, 2009: "The NEW MOON Gender Gap"
First off, I probably won't go anywhere near anything Twilight. If I want to see vampires in a movie I want either the bloodsuckers of From Dusk Till Dawn or the ones in Interview With The Vampire.

I agree with the observation that the primary reason a lot of women are drawn to the Twilight movies because of the classic romanticism in them (in much the same way guys are drawn to 300 because it's basically a classic down and dirty guy movie). Those movies fall squarely into those categories.

Then there are movies that have elements of those categories yet don't fall directly into them. A woman I was talking to once observed that the likes of Fight Club and Sin City were primarily guy movies with limited appeal to women. I don't agree at all as I know quite a few women who loved both of those movies.

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Thu Nov 26, 2009 1:52 am
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